AT

Alex Thorn

Things Alex Says on Podcasts

Where to Find Them

Alex Thorn writes Swan Signal Live - A Bitcoin Show . They have also been a guest on Unchained (9 times) , CoinDesk Podcast Network (8 times) , The Peter McCormack Show (5 times) , What Bitcoin Did (4 times) , Bitcoin Magazine Podcast (3 times) , The Wolf Of All Streets (2 times) , Bankless (2 times) , Simply Bitcoin (2 times) , CRYPTO 101 , Markets Outlook , On The Brink with Castle Island , TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast , The Pomp Podcast and The Milk Road Show .

Recently: “Bitcoin's Price May Have Bottomed. One Reason Is the AI Debasement Trade” on Unchained (October 2026); “Oil & Commodities, Fed Rates, Bitcoin Cycle Analysis | BMTV Oct. 29, 2026” on Bitcoin Magazine Podcast (October 2026); “Bitcoin's Biggest ETF Just Took In $665 MILLION. So Who's Still Selling? | Alex Thorn” on The Wolf Of All Streets (October 2026); “Uneasy Money: Is OpenAI Training on Your Private Chats to Win the AI Race?” on Unchained (September 2026); “The Most Bullish Thing About Bitcoin | Alex Thorn” on What Bitcoin Did (August 2026); “#780: Dissecting The Coldcard Hack with Alex Thorn” on TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast (August 2026).

What They Said

“The data structures of public blockchains are extremely traversable and transparent to the AI. So I think there's no doubt at all that agents will use programmable money on chain. The complexity of using DeFi, or looping multiple loans, that's difficult as a human. It's pretty easy for an agent to do it.” — Alex Thorn, Unchained

Asked how Bitcoin would be used by AI, given it is less programmable than other chains, Thorn answers that agents will use blockchains generally, not necessarily Bitcoin, because frontier models are trained on code and public ledgers are easy for them to read.

Unchained · 2026-10-30 Permalink → Listen →
Unchained Around 19:22 into the episode
Alex Thorn

…be surprised. I'm just saying, you know, the factors that led Satoshi to write about the root problem with fiat traditional currency, they're only magnified from 2009 to now and certainly even from October of last year. So if that was a reason you liked Bitcoin, the thesis is better than it was.

Laura Shin

…me. I don't think that Bitcoin is as programmable as a lot of other crypto assets. And, you know, in fact, like the way it's mainly used in DeFi is through things like wrapped Bitcoin and stuff. So I was curious to hear how you thought Bitcoin would be used by AI, if that is what you meant by that.

Alex Thorn

What I really meant is to exit the surveillance state, which is likely to grow, then something like Bitcoin is a credible alternative and place to store your money. But your question more about agents using coins is also relevant. And you can tell this is just one paragraph in the report. It's not broadly a report about Bitcoin being an exit valve for a future dystopian surveillance state. That's not what most of the report is, but I think that's an important point. Think about all these posts that you see just lately. And I only kind of knew about this until recently, but now it's all over Twitter is like the spyware that your television is loaded with. Every TV is, I mean, some of them are recording your audio in your house, right? And people waking up to that. The building a surveillance state is substantial. And by the way, tracking people, even if you have the face scanners they have in China, they didn't have the bandwidth to follow every person, but now the agents do, right? And so I just think in a world like that, owning censorship resistant currency, I mean, it doesn't have to…

Laura Shin

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. It's it's not just your TV, but your phone. There's all kinds of other things that I've been fiddling with with all my electronics. So you also talked about how, you know, we're in this moment where the focus is on stable coins and tokenization. And you cited that as another…

Alex Thorn

it's counterintuitive, I suppose, right? Because it's very clear. And I know you've been covering the space for so long. So you've definitely seen this happen a few times like I have. But I remember like, you know, before 2017 in like 14, 15, 16, there was, and I was at Fidelity, there was a very…

Laura Shin

Yeah. It's just like in my

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“The AI build out is effectively funded by debasement. It's funded by enormous credit expansion in the private markets, which is effectively money printing. It's also funded literally by tax incentives, so the public treasury is subsidizing the build out in many cases. And if it goes badly, it's so intertwined in all of our markets and every person's retirement account that I think a lot of people believe that if the AI build out needs it, it will be bailed out. And that will be money printing as well.” — Alex Thorn, Unchained

Laura Shin asked what Thorn meant by saying the debasement case for Bitcoin is stronger now than at the October high. He argues the AI data-center boom adds to that case whether it goes well or badly; it's the core of the 'AI debasement trade' in the episode title.

Unchained · 2026-10-30 Permalink → Listen →
Unchained Around 16:57 into the episode
Alex Thorn

…process, I think, for any maturing asset, even a stock, right, that goes from a $10 million pre-seed startup to a billion-dollar public company has to have gains be taken in order to distribute those shares out to new entrants. But so that definitely happened, but it's diminished substantially.

Laura Shin

Okay. So another factor that you cite is you say that the debasement case is stronger than it was at the high. Explain what you mean by that. Yeah,

Alex Thorn

not just at the high in October, but at the time Satoshi published the Bitcoin white paper, right? I mean, if you look at the national debt or the interest that we pay on it, I mean, they were, I mean, almost order of magnitude less than today, right? And even just since like 2022, the national debt has doubled, basically, right? I mean, check the actual number there, but you can see it on the chart, right? So if your thesis for Bitcoin involves, right? Yeah, in 2020, the national debt was 23 trillion. Today it's 40, right? So if part of your thesis was, you know, the, excuse me, the never-ending debasement of the US dollar, which is a feature of the dollar, it's only gotten worse. And the likelihood of astronomical money printing has also only increased, right? So if that is your thesis, I'm not saying that this is inherently an indicator for Bitcoin, but for many owners of Bitcoin, this chart is a reason why they like Bitcoin because it has a fixed supply. It's hard to alter, right? It doesn't, the monetary policy is transparent and predictable, unlike what is likely to, you know, end up in a debt jubilee or a never-ending debasement. And I think everybody knows that, right? Like everybody, and kind of in debt, you know, fixed income markets, like bond traders like are kind of mask…

Laura Shin

Yeah. Yeah. All of that makes a lot of sense. The one thing I have to ask about is a quote from your essay. You wrote, the second fundamental is older than any rate cycle, the need for money that no one can freeze, surveil. Or reprogram grows with the capacity to do those things. And AI Debasement…

Alex Thorn

What I really meant is to exit the surveillance state, which is likely to grow, then something like Bitcoin is a credible alternative and place to store your money. But your question more about agents using coins is also relevant. And you can tell this is just one paragraph in the report. It's not…

Laura Shin

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. It's it's not just your TV, but your phone. There's all kinds of other things that I've been fiddling with with all my electronics. So you also talked about how, you know, we're in this moment where the focus is on stable coins and tokenization. And you cited that as another…

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

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