PN

Patricia Nilsson

Things Patricia Says on Podcasts

Where to Find Them

Patricia Nilsson writes FT News Briefing , hosts FT Tech Tonic and hosts What's Your Problem? . They have also been a guest on Top Comment .

Recently: “How porn sites soft-launched the attention economy” on Top Comment (October 2026); “Introducing 'The Kink Machine: The Hidden Business of Pleasure'” on FT News Briefing (February 2026); “From Hot Money: Playboy vs. Rusty and Edie” on What's Your Problem? (June 2022); “SEC chair reviews ‘uneven’ US equities market” on FT News Briefing (June 2022); “Introducing: Hot Money” on FT Tech Tonic (June 2022); “OnlyFans reverses its controversial porn ban” on FT News Briefing (August 2021).

What They Said

“I sort of asked him, do you think that this type of content is why some critics might take issue with the porn industry? And he got really agitated and he was like, do you think I want to shoot that kind of shit? And he said, I can't decide what I shoot anymore. What I shoot is dictated by data of what people click on. And he pointed his finger at me and he said, you are the perverts.” — Patricia Nilsson, Top Comment

Nilsson retelling the anecdote that opens her book: a conversation with a porn director in Prague. The director is the one speaking in the quoted lines. Her takeaway is that algorithms serve impulses people aren't proud of, and that what we do online is not always what we want to want.

Top Comment · 2026-10-30 Permalink → Listen →
Top Comment Around 34:35 into the episode
Matt Shea

Sinister.

Marianna Spring

…about the way that that content is hosted and pushed and recommended and curated. That's definitely true of the social media platforms with their algorithms. Do you think that's fair to apply that same sort of thesis to the porn industry and to the pornographic content online and on social media?

Patricia Nilsson

Well, yeah, if I understood you correctly, I mean, I think we need to focus less on the content and sort of is this content good? Is this content bad? And we need to think more about the way it's reaching us, why it's reaching us, the way it's reaching us. And democratically, can we talk about turning these algorithms off or adjusting them so that they're not as addictive and they're not making us feel so icky and shameful all the time? I just sort of have one final thought as well on anonymity and sort of how this sense of anonymity is so key to how we behave online. And there is often a sort of desire to be like, the reason we're consuming all these horrible things, it's the tech company's fault, like they're creating this content. But in reality, it's more complex. It's a relationship. You know, we're being pushed this type of content, this type of content is being created because we can't stop looking at it. We can't stop clicking on it. And, you know, imagine your search history being sort of open to the world. I mean, I think for most people, that would be feel more intimate and maybe horrible than our diaries being published. You know, the way in which our…

Matt Shea

That's super interesting. Yeah,

Marianna Spring

thank you so much for chatting to us, Patricia. And we are very much enjoying reading your book, which gets into kind of everything we've just discussed there and much more. Thank

Patricia Nilsson

you for having me. Bye.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“The modern porn industry, the online porn industry, is not really about porn. It's not really about sex. The pornography is just a byproduct. What the business is really about is the attention that the pornography is attracting.” — Patricia Nilsson, Top Comment

Nilsson on what she learned while investigating the owners of Pornhub: at her first industry conference, almost everyone she met worked in traffic trading, ad tech or payments. She argues that early porn sites were laboratories for the incentives and technologies the rest of the internet now runs on.

Top Comment · 2026-10-30 Permalink → Listen →
Top Comment Around 22:19 into the episode
Patricia Nilsson

…thought they were stealing from them and thought they were ruining the industry because porn directors and porn performers, and you know, the people who made up the porn industry, of course, they didn't want the stuff they were making to be sort of uploaded and consumed for free. So I think that's

Matt Shea

empathize working in television.

Patricia Nilsson

…in an industry where performers are literally made to barrel, the people who are making money from this business model were basically demanding to be completely unknown. I mean, I remember the first porn conference I ever went to. The only people that I met were traffic traders, you know, people working in ad tech, payment processors. And that was sort of the moment when I started realizing that the modern porn industry, the online porn industry, is not really about porn. It's not really about sex. The pornography is just a byproduct. What the business is really about is the attention that the pornography is attracting. I thought I was writing the story of what happened to the porn industry when it collided with the internet. But really, what I was learning was this was the story of what happened to the internet once it merged with the technologies and incentives from porn. This is why early porn sites and porn companies became these laboratories for the technologies and incentives that have really become the…

Matt Shea

That's one of the most interesting things about your book is it's not just about porn. You begin to realize how much of the internet has been shaped by porn. But can you explain a little bit about how that economy works and how that kind of platform economy and platform design and ad tech and…

Patricia Nilsson

Going back to Fabian Tillman, so this German developer who at one point was the face of Pornhub, he never actually built a single porn site. What he had built in the late 90s was one of the first pieces of affiliate marketing softwares. And affiliate marketing is, to use a modern example, when a…

Matt Shea

How do they make money from that? How can they make money from tracking how someone moves around a porn site?

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.