JN

Johanne Nedergaard

Things Johanne Says on Podcasts

Where to Find Them

Johanne Nedergaard has been a guest on Giants Shoulder .

Recently: “#166 - Meet the Neuroscientist Who Discovered That Some People Have No Inner Speech” on Giants Shoulder (October 2026).

What They Said

“Some people have told me that if you have anendophasia, that is really hard to do because you might have negative thoughts, but they're not so tangible. It just feels like a vast sea of negative thought instead of this specific statement that I can grasp onto and then challenge.” — Johanne Nedergaard, Giants Shoulder

She is discussing open questions about inner speech and mental health. Cognitive behavioral therapy asks people to identify and challenge the statements they tell themselves. She relays that people with no inner voice have told her this is hard for them.

Giants Shoulder · 2026-10-22 Permalink → Listen →
Giants Shoulder Around 57:18 into the episode
Johanne Nedergaard

Yeah.

Evan McGloughlin

Do you think these are really still very open questions?

Johanne Nedergaard

Yes, I think so. And I think there's a super interesting overlap with an endophasia research as well. So if rumination, for example, which is a very common feature of depression and anxiety, if that's inner speech based, then you would expect that you wouldn't have so much of that if you have anedophasia. And then could that be a mental health benefit? And then the other thing that some people have reported to me is that if you do attend cognitive behavioral therapy, for example, which is all about learning to identify these statements that you're telling yourself, these catastrophizing statements, for example, identifying them and then challenging them. I'm like asking questions, is this really reasonable to think that everything will go wrong in this way? And some people have told me that if you have anedophasia, that is really hard to do because you might have negative thoughts, but they're not so tangible. It just feels like a vast sea of negative thought instead of this specific statement that I can grasp onto and then challenge.

Evan McGloughlin

Interesting. Nothing is as straightforward as it seems, right? When it comes to these, like with aphantasia, there was a strong idea that these people might be immune to PTSD, right? Because if a large part of PTSD is these images that are coming into mind that they can't control, then someone…

Johanne Nedergaard

the work hasn't been done interesting there's so there's only a handful of studies on people without inner speech

Evan McGloughlin

would would you predict that they would have maybe slightly more positive mental health but again the effect size is probably not as large as you might assume is that would that kind of be the um the intuition

Speaker names from our own diarization · position estimated from where the line sits in the episode
“I used to also think that inner speech … was completely fundamental to the way that humans think. That there's a lot of the thinking that we do that we could not do without language. And I'm not so sure about that anymore. … I've received so many emails from people who have this experience themselves and they're all saying like thoughts do not need words. I don't understand why it seems so inefficient to think in the restricted medium of language. So happy I'm not doing that.” — Johanne Nedergaard, Giants Shoulder

The neuroscientist coined a term (anendophasia) for having no inner speech. She says people without an inner voice solve many of the same cognitive tasks just as well. From the outside, you couldn't tell who has inner speech and who doesn't.

Giants Shoulder · 2026-10-22 Permalink → Listen →
Giants Shoulder Around 47:55 into the episode
Johanne Nedergaard

No Inner don't think we can conclude that. I think we have to be tailored to the individual. So some people might benefit from that and other people might not. Yeah.

Evan McGloughlin

…to me. How do you probe these really deep questions about consciousness through these people that experience the world in a really different, interesting way? Have No thought about this? What do you think we learn about consciousness through studying people that don't have any inner speech?

Johanne Nedergaard

…Yes. And there's this, I used to also think that inner speech was or internal linguistic activity or whatever was completely fundamental to the way that humans think. That there's a lot of the thinking that we do that we could not do without language. And I'm not so sure about that anymore. Because of all these, ever since our original article came out where we coined this term anandophasia, I've received so many emails from people who have this experience themselves and they're all saying like thoughts do not need words. I don't understand why it seems so inefficient to think in the restricted medium of language. So happy I'm not doing that. And that's like that's really fascinating to me that we have we're yeah we are so diverse in the way that we think and still we achieve performance or we we go about our daily lives in ways that you would never be able to tell who has inner speech and who doesn't from the outside.

Evan McGloughlin

Yes. We have to

Johanne Nedergaard

do these really controlled behavioral experiments to see any differences.

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