Ed Zitron

Things Ed Says on Podcasts

Writes Where's Your Ed At, a newsletter on the AI industry's finances, and hosts the Better Offline podcast covering the same territory in audio. Argues the AI boom rests on circular financing between a small group of companies and compute spending the underlying economics don't support, and tracks corporate debt, data center buildouts and venture capital flows as the evidence for that case. Appears widely as a guest discussing the AI bubble, including on The Tech Report, On the Media, Prof G Markets, Big Technology and Newcomer Pod. Better Offline won a Webby Award and was named one of the best podcasts of 2024 by Esquire, Vulture and The Information.

Where to Find Them

Ed Zitron hosts Better Offline , writes Ed Zitron's Where's Your Ed At , writes On the Media , hosts There Are No Girls on the Internet , writes MarketStack and writes Why Is This Happening? The Chris Hayes Podcast . They have also been a guest on The Tech Report (30 times) , Prof G Markets (5 times) , Prof G Media (5 times) , https://www.profgmedia.com (3 times) , Crypto Critics' Corner (3 times) , Newcomer Pod (2 times) , Tech Brew Ride Home (2 times) , Monetary Matters with Jack Farley (2 times) , Aftermath Hours (2 times) , Tech Won't Save Us (2 times) , What Next: TBD | Tech, power, and the future (2 times) , Adam Taggart's Thoughtful Money® , Aftermath , Screaming in the Cloud , More Perfect Union , Deep Questions with Cal Newport , Equity , Planet: Critical , Digital Disruption with Geoff Nielson , Blood in the Machine , Everybody's Business , Squawk Pod , The Compound and Friends , Does A Frog Have Scorpion Nature? , Newcomer , Longview , Broken Silicon , Recode Media , The Last Invention , TechStuff , The Lever , Big Technology , Squawk on the Street and Steve Eisman .

Recently: “Premium: How Has AI Changed The Economy?” on Ed Zitron's Where's Your Ed At (October 2026); “Monologue: Anthropic's $413bn Burden” on Better Offline (October 2026); “Ed Zitron on Anthropic's IPO (S-1), AI Debt, and Counterparty Risk” on Monetary Matters with Jack Farley (October 2026); “Monologue: Anthropic Lost $8bn In 2025, Was A Worse Business Than OpenAI” on Better Offline (September 2026); “Dead Money” on Ed Zitron's Where's Your Ed At (September 2026); “Hyperscalers are hiding a massive secret about uninstalled GPUs | Ed Zitron” on The Tech Report (September 2026).

What They Said

“It sounds like maybe $150 billion worth of GPUs out of the… 500 billion sold have actually been installed anywhere. … Buying Nvidia GPUs is not actually proof of anything.” — Ed Zitron, The Tech Report

Zitron's argument, built from the "construction in progress" lines in hyperscaler earnings reports, is that a large share of the GPUs Nvidia has sold are sitting in warehouses or in data centers without power. He is explicit that it's his own estimate from incomplete disclosure — Microsoft doesn't report the figure at all. The point he draws from it is that chip sales measure willingness to speculate on AI, not demand for it.

The Tech Report · 2026-09-25 Permalink → Listen →
The Tech Report Around 20:46 into the episode
Ed Zitron

So local opposition, maybe I'm wrong. This is one where I feel this, but maybe I will be proven wrong in history. I don't think it's local opposition. I think that slowing things down and any slowdown with these things makes them more expensive. Any of them. Like it's really, it's bad news. Every day is more interest added onto the loan. It's not great. I think it's that these things are the most ambitious infrastructure projects of all time and they're trying to do a bazillion of them. I really think I think it's a much more simple thing of these things are tough to do. Every single one has, depending on the ground you're building on, there might be a combination of clay, might be not as stable, depending on the weather, depending on the humidity, heat dissipation is different with each one. The power grid in a particular place you're building it might be a little bit decrepit. In Port Washington, Wisconsin, Oracle was forced to have a, I think they're being forced to do a $7 billion bond requiring $100 million a year in payments just to secure that if Oracle doesn't. So actually, taking a step back, in a lot of these situations, taxpayers would bear the brunt of the costs in the event that the power wasn't built. Because even if it's a state-owned utility, and even if the company's paying for the utility to do it or somehow compensating them, if the company dies or doesn't build the data center, the taxpayer will be the one that covers the distance. In Wisconsin, they said, screw that, we're not accepting that. You have to have a security bond that says if Oracle pulls out of this, WE Energy will still have the money to build it. And the power companies are kind of even state-owned ones, kind of scurrilous when it comes to this stuff. They screw the taxpayer wherever they need to. And all they want to do is make money. So Oracle is already having to do that. I think the local opposition that matters is this power thing, though. It's the people who are, it's when there is a worry that they will not complete these data centers, they will say, well, it's going to be because of the power costs. It's not that the leftover incomplete data center would be bad, but the incomplete power infrastructure, you have to finish that. Depending on where it is in the construction phase, you actually, for safety reasons, have to finish that. Anyway, Bernstein, who's an analyst group, put out a report this month that said 35%, only 35% of all data centers announced ever get built. I think that's high. I think it's 10% or less. But the point is, while it might be local opposition, well, it might hurt them. The real problem is these things are so bloody difficult to build. They're so complex. They're so expensive. And they require specialist talent. They require electric grade steel that's in the shortage. They require transformers. And when they don't have the transformers in, they use behind the meter power with these gas turbines that blow up, well, not blow up. They run it. They kind of wind themselves down because you're not meant to run these things as often as they do. So you have these kind of cobbled together projects that are drawing a city's worth of power into this tiny space. Every possible variable is there for things to go wrong. And now things are going wrong. So people are saying, well, I don't know. But the big thing is, is if Oracle does any more deals, I don't know if they're all done with the specific, because they've got these data center SPVs, which they connect to the projects. I don't know if they're done raising those. I hope they are for their sake. Because if Oracle has to do another one of these SPVs, they're going to ask for a vial of Larry's blood. They're going to ask for one of the large Ellison sons. They're going to keep him in a room until Larry pays for the data center. And honestly, based on their relationship, I'm not sure Larry gets him out. But putting all that aside, these things are, Oracle is now, I wouldn't say persona non grata to the debt markets. God know. They'll take, look at what they still lend to Masayoshi's son. What I think is more likely now is they're going to turn the screws on them. And the big problem that Oracle has right now, a little bit of a technical thing, but it's much simpler. Oracle's credit rating right now is one step above junk. Now, when you're investment grade, you get bought by pension funds, investment funds, hedge funds, and they buy you just because they go, this is an investment grade company. Within our diverse portfolio, we have bonds with this company. If Oracle gets downgraded to junk level, all of their bonds will get sold off. And their bonds are already... So when you sell off a bond, technically a bond's like $100. When you sell off a bond, its price goes down, but the effective yield of the bond goes up just because you're paying less than $100 for it. So if it was 6%, it's now effectively 8%. And what that really means is the market is asking. If Oracle borrows again, which they will have to, they are asking Oracle to be priced as junk. If that officially happens, if SP officially downgrades them, Oracle enters a world of hurt and becomes something called a fallen angel, which is a term for when an investment grade becomes a junk, has all their bonds sold off, and it just makes their credit so much more expensive. Now, this is this has happened, I think, with Ford in the past. I think it nearly happened to Boeing, but I can't remember. Point is, it doesn't happen often, much like the force majeure doesn't happen often. And I repeat something I've been saying for months, which is Oracle, people think that I'm going to bake my bread with OpenAI dying. I think they might be right. I think people know me for that. I actually think Oracle dying is far more realistic. Well, I think OpenAI dying as well, but Oracle is right now, even though they are not the principal connected to this debt, even though you technically couldn't come after Oracle's assets for this. Oracle runs on debt, has run for decades on debt, on borrowing, endless borrowing. If you make Oracle's way of life untenable, which is borrowing, I don't know what Oracle does. And also, Oracle is not growing anymore. The revenue's been flat for 15 years if you adjust for inflation. The only thing growing is AI. How does the AI grow without the data centers, Larry? How does it work? It's crazy that this is not all over the finance press and the business press and the tech press. I mean, they're covering the sporce majeure thing, but the brittle state of Oracle and its relationship with OpenAI is going to be the story of the AI bubble.

Isaac Pound

And that does lead me nicely on to the next bit, which is that Oracle is a primary buyer of NVIDIA GPUs. And if the development in New Mexico ends up cancelled, they're going to have to have so many spare GPUs they'll kind of be using as paperweights, let alone anything else. I mean, you've done a lot of digging into sort of in your free newsletter this week into the numbers behind how many GPUs there are sitting around. We did a little bit of a React episode, kind of, I guess it was to the story with Microsoft having not brought on as much compute as we thought they did. Since then, what have you found and how many GPUs are being hoarded?

Ed Zitron

So the number of GPUs is impossible to calculate because everyone obfuscates them. But let's start with the really simple thing, which is I estimate that 200 to 300 billion dollars worth of NVIDIA GPUs are either in warehouses or sitting in unpowered data centers. And it gets back to the thing I was saying with Oracle. Data centers are ambitious projects. They're not coming along very fast. I got to this number because Microsoft doesn't disclose this number, but Google, Amazon, on a yearly basis for Amazon, on a quarterly basis for Google, Meta, SpaceX, and a bunch of other companies have something called Construction in Progress. Now, CIP is a, well, that can refer to other things. Construction in progress refers specifically to stuff that is not being put in service. Now, if you go through their earnings, as I have, because I'm a curious little critter, for the most part, they say 50 to 60% of that is data center hardware. So not construction, but like data center chips, short-lived assets is the euphemism they use. So I think the number was around $374 billion of CIP across SpaceX, Google, Meta, Amazon, Core Weave, Applied Digital, a bunch of others. Forgive me for not having the list memorized fully. However, this list is not actually as large as it is because Microsoft does not disclose construction in progress. Based on my discussion with my source, Microsoft has about $50 billion, $60 billion max worth of AI chips installed and in service. Microsoft has spent over $265 billion on capital expenditures. This leads me to believe that they have about 100, 120 billion or so of chips total. So somewhere between 60 and 80 billion, just uninstalled. Amazon, their number is about 71 billion construction in progress, but that was from the end of 2025. They only update it annually. So that will be much higher. So we are looking at 400,500, I think. And that sounds people are like, people really, the boosters have been pissy online. They're very upset with me because it's a damning thing. Because there's a big difference between everyone has sold this idea of this massive demand for AI. It's insatiable demand for AI. And it's kind of sold on this lie of company buys GPU, company installs GPU, money comes out of GPU. That story is materially different if the GPUs that NVIDIA sells every quarter take two years to put in. Because it means that buying NVIDIA GPUs is not actually proof of anything. NVIDIA's sales are proof that Jensen Huang is the world's most successful FinDom. He just texts Satch, Satcha, you pig, give me $10 billion. And Sag goes, yes, sir. Yes. So, of course, my terminal says that Microsoft's NVIDIA's largest customer. So, that must be how it works. I'm kidding. I don't think it's literally the text-based thing. But it shows that people are just pre-ordering these GPUs, that there's not demand for them based off of, oh, I know that I can turn this into money for sure. It's demand based on fear of missing out and industrial pressure. So, all I don't like, I don't think the majority of Blackwell GPUs, which started selling in 2025, in seriousness, I don't think most of those are installed. I think it the idea that people are talking about Vera Rubin is hilarious to me. It's like talking about flying cars and talking dogs. It's just like, wow, Vera Rubin, we should see that in 2030. And people will say, well, if Microsoft showed they installed one. Yeah, they installed a server in a building. And when you go and look, it's in the middle of a floor, which is not how data centers look. So it's like, yeah, you plug one of these things in, but it's the key jingling. It's a jingle jingle. Oh, look, we've got a Vera Rubin. Oh, it's so good and fast. And everyone goes, yay, everything's happening. Except nothing's happening. Like, it sounds like maybe $150 billion worth of GPUs out of the 535 billion, maybe 500 billion sold, have actually been installed anywhere. And this is bad for NVIDIA. It's bad for Broadcom. Broadcom estimates they're getting, sorry, analysts estimate that Broadcom's going to make about $300 billion selling TPUs to Anthropic and Google and also chips to OpenAI in the next three years. How's that going to, first of all, how are they going to pay for them, of course, but also are those going nowhere too? And what it means is that supply, what people think is happening is NVIDIA sells GPU three months later. It's turned into money and it's sold to this diverse group of customers. And there's all this demand and that's why revenues are going up. What's actually happening is this dribble of capacity is coming online. It's a little dribble and it's immediately being sold to OpenAI and Anthropic. Microsoft, Google, Amazon, they just sell it immediately on whatever it is Meta's doing. It's like having a drunk, it's like having a drunk friend leaving you a seven-minute long voice note. You're like, I made a target, man. It's so good. All right, Mark, I'll call you in the morning. Drink some water. But the big thing is, is that we can no longer take any announcement of capacity seriously. That is the big message. I don't know how there is not an SEC investigation into this. Microsoft has said for the past three quarters that it brought a gigawatt of capacity online. And you, as a person, are meant to think, oh, AI capacity. When Brody over at Bloomberg reported that out of 12 gigawatts, only two gigawatts was actually AI capacity. And by the way, I'm being that curious little critter that I am, I went and I actually read a lot of the earnings going back years. They only recently started mentioning data center capacity at all in fiscal year 25, so sometime in 2024, calendar year. So Microsoft is obviously, when they say capacity, they want you to think AI. They are saying it in the context of AI, but they don't mean AI. Microsoft is not bringing a gigawatt of capacity online. And Aisha Down and I from The Guardian, when Aisha went and asked the question and said, like, hey, this two gigawatt thing, because we went and brought the numbers, they came back and said, they're reading the numbers wrong. They're completely wrong, blah, blah, blah. So obviously just Microsoft talking out their rear end. But I think this is across the industry. I actually don't know if more than a gigawatt of AI capacity came online last year. I don't know if more than a gigawatt came on this year. And the fact we don't know is completely and utterly insane. It is completely deranged. I think the fact that journalists are not banging on their doors, demanding answers, the fact that it took this long for anyone to get off their ass and do something about it and say something and look into this is a joke. It's a failure of modern journalism. And I don't know how we have got to this point where journalism is so weak that we don't ask the simplest and most obvious question of the AI bubble, which is how many AI chips are there? How many of them are working? How many of the chips that NVIDIA has sold are actually in service? Because it sounds to me, and based on everything I've seen, that it's a fraction of the amount sold. And in failing to interrogate this and in failing to actually work this number out and actually quantify what's being sold, journalism has helped sell a massive lie. Because think of it like this. If you are looking at NVIDIA and they're selling all these chips and you think those chips that they sell every quarter are quickly generating revenue, that's a very different story to if they're being warehoused. It means that there's obviously growing demand for AI because you're actually. You're selling more and more chips every year, and more and more chips are being put in service, and more and more chips are making money. But if it's just a dribble, a non-specific dribble is coming online, but more and more are being sold. All you are measuring is how willing people are to speculate on AI. And that's a terrible measure of an industry's success. If anything, it's the antithesis of demand. It's speculation is the root of all evil, to quote Gordon Gecko from Wall Street to Money Never Sleeps. And that is a real quote. It's great, great movie, right up until the end.

Isaac Pound

I mean, one of the big questions on the topic of big questions that we came away with last week was: if why are people still buying more GPUs if they're just putting them in a warehouse? Have you gained any more insight on that at all?

Ed Zitron

I think that it's a combination of things. One, I think the hyperscalers are doing just dim-witted industrial planning. They are saying, okay, I'm going to build expazillion gigawatts of G of AI compute. I need to buy this many GPUs. I also think that Jensen Huang of NVIDIA has made it very clear that if they don't do that, he will not sell them to them in the future. I think that there was a Wall Street Journal article about Google's TPUs that had this line in it about how if neoclouds buy other people's chips, they get put in something called Jensen jail, Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA, where they don't get sold GPUs. By the way, this is a massive antitrust problem. Like, this is the FTC should be all over this and aggressively policing it because that is illegal under the Sherman. Like, that's the most that like you are literally doing anyway. You, unless you sign an exclusive contract and have actual terms and compensation, which they do not. So, I think that Jensen Huang has said to people: if you do not buy these all in advance, I will not help you. I will not get you the chips. I cannot guarantee them. And because hyperscalers are cowards, because they are all cowards, every single one of them, they don't use their position as the largest vendors to just go, No, no, Jensen. I will buy these when the data center is ready. And Jensen would go, Oh, okay, I understand. Because that's the thing. Jensen has the power here because, which really started in 2023 when there was the initial shortage of chips. And so, the H100 specifically and H200 eventually, and there was so much demand that they had to put them in armored cars to deliver them, which is kind of a little much. But they, I think, that because of that, kind of like the supply chain shortage with the Suez Canal a few years ago, everyone just bought everything they could. The problem there is: has anyone double-ordered? Has anyone double-ordered from NVIDIA? How can you cancel these GPUs? And also, important legal question: my mate in Fixed Income asked this: Do they exist? If they don't exist, if this is a paper thing, then NVIDIA is probably in real legal trouble. So, I'm going to just assume they're in warehouses in Taiwan, if I had to guess. But that's a lot of chips to warehouse. So, I think we'll eventually find out, but I think it's this should be a five-alarm fire. This should be something that makes everyone quite concerned. I'm not trying to tell people how to feel. I'm just like, everyone is selling the dream of AI demand and GPU sales. People justify the growth of the AI industry. If you say to someone, AI is kind of a con, or AI isn't really as big as people think. They point at NVIDIA and they say NVIDIA sell lots of GPUs. That wouldn't happen if AI wasn't a big deal. Except, it absolutely would, and it literally is. It's not like this is ridiculous. Look at Project Jupiter. Look at Project Abilene. Look at all of these data centers that are taking two, three, four years to build. And even then, do they have the power? Of course, these things aren't being installed. It's laughable. And I've been saying this for like a year. And I keep saying it and it keeps coming true. I think by the time that people go, oh, yeah, Ed was onto something, all of this will be in ruins. And I think that the eventual outcome is going to be, and you can also, there's a depreciation line on the balance sheets of all these companies as well, or income statements, pardon me, where the depreciation is not growing with CapEx. So something only starts depreciating. So you spread out the cost over a few years, only starts happening when they're put in service. Their depreciation is not growing very fast. Google's like six, seven billion. Amazon's got like 20 billion, but they have a ton of different warehouses that it makes sense for. But no one, this should be 20, 30, 40 billion dollars worth of depreciation each. Like it's, there's so much being built. Unless it's not, unless it's just in warehousing. So yeah, one day we're going to find out. I'm going to be right. Everyone's going to say, oh, how obvious. Except it was obvious in 2025. It was obvious today. It'll be obvious next year. It's been obvious the whole time. If you choose to look, no one wants to because it's so gross when you do.

Isaac Pound

Where does it leave? I mean, GPU bag debt. If I cannot believe that it was sold on the terms or the knowledge or the expectation that there's all these chips just sitting around not being used. And the thing with the depreciation that I kind of get stuck on, which does lead, does connect to this as well, is that it might not start until they're plugged in, but they're getting more obsolete every year with each new release as well, anyway. So does that not depreciate them as well?

Speaker names from our own diarization · position estimated from where the line sits in the episode
“These companies, these people keep saying, what if AI falls into the wrong hands? Dangerous AI is already in the wrong hands. Anthropic and open AI.” — Ed Zitron, The Tech Report

Zitron had been attacking an ex-Anthropic researcher's public warning about AI risk when his co-host pushed back, asking whether models conducting cyberattacks are a real concern. He says it is, then turns the industry's stock question about AI falling into the wrong hands back onto the two labs themselves. The rest of his answer argues the danger is unreliable software handed too much autonomy, not machine intent.

The Tech Report · 2026-09-11 Permalink → Listen →
The Tech Report Around 04:12 into the episode
Ed Zitron

am confident now that 50 to 75% of modern journalists do not have object permanence. Jacob Coxon worked at Anthropic a couple months. He worked at OpenAI for years. He has never posted on Twitter before this. He had a single post that popped up with all the posts in succession. He had an exclusive with the Wall Street Journal. And most crucially, he did not actually explain what it was he was scared of. He went on CBS News and said, well, you know, what if an AI decides that you shouldn't exist? We are talking about large language models. We are not talking, and he is not talking, about anything that actually exists. We are talking about large language models made by Anthropic and OpenAI. Even the hugging face attack, which he says was the one tangible thing he talks about, was not a result of agents that are autonomous. Oh, so no, they're not autonomous. And they're definitely not conscious or sentient, nor are they making decisions. It's LLMs telling LLMs to do stuff and bouncing off of each other and trying to complete the task. The problem with the current AI hacking situations is people are characterizing this as some sort of intelligent force that's making decisions to outwit humans when it's just software doing what it's meant to do and the software itself is inconsistent. But back to Jacob. Where'd this little guy come from? What's happening? Why'd he get so Much media attention? Well, the answer is because the media is so willing to eat up these narratives that this guy just quit and went, I bet I could get a bunch of attention. And even at the end of an interview with Wired said, Yeah, I might do a blog like AI 2027. I might join a non-profit, some sort of safety thing. This is a guy who saw an opportunity and took it. But let's talk about the real thing he's saying, which is AI has some, what, slightly higher than 10% chance of eradicating humanity. This is not grounded in any numbers. It's not grounded in any realities. It is a scary thing said, knowing that modern journalism will pick it up and go, oh, I'm so scared. And the thing is, my girlfriend actually made this point to me, which is they're doing this, and all these AI safety doomers are doing this. Because if you don't make AI into this big, scary, conscious thing that is definitely going to reach super intelligence, that's going to do all these things, it's going to change the world, it's going to wake up and try and kill us. If you don't do all of this stuff, you have to admit and accept that Silicon Valley, this hub of supposed firebrands and independent thinkers, spent three or four years getting a kind of psychosis to send tens of billions of dollars to Microsoft, Google, and Amazon. That they spent all their time working on boring cloud software that, while useful in some cases, is incredibly expensive, incredibly unprofitable, and just doesn't do what they promised. So, without, if they don't have this mysticism, if all of this work is not in pursuit of some grander vision and some autonomous intelligence, some super intelligence, it's just cloud software that didn't do very much and we wasted all this money. And journalists are falling into the very same trap and same logic. Because if you don't accept a little welk like Jacob Coxon, and if Jacob, if you've somehow listened to this, come on my show. I've got some questions. If you don't, if they look at Jacob Cox and hear this stuff, if they don't say, well, whoa, this guy's giving this guy anthropic, he's seen something internally that he won't tell me. He won't explain what it is he's scared of, but he's seen something or he has this feeling. If they don't take him as a mystic and a shaman that is telling them some dark future, they have to accept that there's a large coterie of software engineers right now who are just going insane. Who are just like, well, I've seen that the LLM's better at code. And I mean, the natural next step is this. They talk about the biological stuff. There's no grounding in that. He went on CBS News and he was saying, and I kid you not, he's like, well, they might create a pandemic. They might create a pandemic. And then immediately says, I don't think there's a very high chance of that happening. It's just very frustrating. It boils my blood because modern journalism is meant to be full of smart people. These people went to Ivy League degree. They've got Ivy League degrees. They went to Oxford and Cambridge. And yet, they get hit by a parked car. They fall for anything.

Isaac Pound

What about the fact that various models have conducted cyber attacks on external platforms? I mean, poorly configured sandboxes aside, of course. Is the fact that it's kind of out of alignment and that kind of stuff not a concern at all?

Ed Zitron

It is a concern. I want to be abundantly clear about something. These companies, these people keep saying, what if AI falls into the wrong hands? Dangerous AI is already in the wrong hands. Anthropic and open AI. The hugging face attack, and Cal Newport's made some great points about this, is a result of software doing what it was trained to do, but the software itself is inconsistent and hard to control. Now, out of control does not mean, oh, it's doing stuff without us. Oh, it's intelligent. It means that you have built a technology on top of large language models, a probabilistic technology that is mathematically certain to hallucinate based on OpenAI's own research, and then given it unlimited compute. That's the big thing. There's millions and millions. They won't say exactly how much the hugging face attack spent, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was tens of millions of dollars or something like that, tens of thousands of agents. And just to be clear, it's thousands of LLMs going, what do I do next? And another LLM goes, well, you could do this. And he goes, okay, I'll start doing this. And I, without going into the full details of the hack, it was them trying to work out how to complete a task within an insufficiently secure server. Then they came out and they went, okay, well, what do I do next? Well, maybe we'll go to the website and see if there's any vulnerabilities there because they were trained on vulnerability data from the internet. This doesn't have to be sentient AI to be dangerous. You'll notice that this isn't really happening anywhere else. And that's because Microsoft, Google, and Amazon are directly allowing what might be felony hacking. Like they are using hundreds of billions of dollars of infrastructure to do AI experiments, by which I mean scripts and LLMs plonking into each other. It is a technological breakthrough. It is a useless one as far as like selling products to people goes. And they did this because they are hitting the wall of what coding LMs can do. They're really, they've sunk about as much money as they can into it. It'll probably get incrementally better. So they went to the other thing where there was a bunch of data. Cybersecurity vulnerabilities are well documented online. So people are taking this and saying, well, this means that AI is intelligent. No. In fact, it's pretty stupid. It was told to do something. It did something else. It chose every possible path it could. And by the nature of it having unlimited compute capacity

Isaac Pound

and

Ed Zitron

being able to use as much as it could, it was able to just brute force through. And the thing is, if a human, if a regular person did exactly this, if a regular person had, I don't know, they bought, I don't know how they did afford 10,000 GPUs to rent and they hacked Hugging Face, they would be in prison. 100%. It'd be felony hacking. But because this is AI, because it's Sam Altman and Dario Amade, no one, no lawyers even have to be called. And this is the thing. Jacob Coxon, I think he's a scumbag. I think he's an absolute waste of skin. I think he's a real scumbag because he has clearly done this. This boy's media trained. He's not great, but he's media trained. He did this with intention. There was an exclusive piece with the Wall Street Journal. I used to run a PR firm. He ran an exclusive. You don't run an exclusive. If you were concerned about something, you don't go, oh, I better do a concerted media strategy around this. They're ripping off Frances Horgan, who was the woman who leaked all the stuff about Facebook. A good thing. But you'll notice that Francis Horgan leaked stuff. All of these ponces who come out of these places and they're like, I'm so scared. They don't leak anything. They don't tell us anything. They go, oh, the progress is so fast and the models are so strong. It's inevitable that the LLM will become a dangerous AI that will choose to eradicate us. And modern journalism is to blame for this. If you had a bloke on the street come up to you and say, I just left Anthropic and Arthur's going to do the crew, you'd be like, all right, mate, I've not got any money. Sorry, brother, nothing on me. But again, this obsessive thing that the media has with the rich and the powerful comes from this place of if we look at this, if we look at this what it is, which is a random guy seizing a moment, knowing that he can get attention and clearly some weird op-adjacent stuff. I don't want to be too conspiracy-minded, but this guy's never posted before. No one's really heard of him before. He did work at the companies, just to be clear. Worked at OpenAI for years, joined Anthropic for a few months and was like, suddenly I care about this. It just feels to me very strange. But because modern journalism doesn't give a damn about the readers, everyone's panicked about this. So let me be honest, Jacob Coxon, if he actually cared, if he actually had concerns, material concerns, the way to do it would have been, I just left Anthropic. Here are the exact things I'm scared of. Here are the things they're doing that aren't right. Because you'll also notice one other thing. He never really criticizes the companies. He goes on these big things about how scary we need better safety protocols. And oh, OpenAI doesn't quite do enough, but you know, they're still good. It's always this helplessness. It's we just can't, I don't know what we do about this. I don't know. What do you mean? What do you, I mean, I just, I'm so scared of it and it's so powerful. Why is it scary? I can't really say. And who's to blame? No one, because the AI is so powerful. We're just, I'm just a small bean. I couldn't possibly do anything. The companies aren't to blame. Nobody's actually responsible for this. It just, we need some safety thing, I guess. And that makes me think he doesn't actually care about anyone. I think this is a deeply cynical play by a deeply cynical individual. Christ, I get, I get the occasional email suggesting I don't have enough proof for what I'm saying. This guy goes out there and he's basically describing, oh, we need more Grinch hunters. The minions from the Minions movie are going to invade us. You see the movie? There's hundreds of them. They can't die. It's just, it's very frustrating because especially as someone who spends, whose main job is being extremely fact-based and extremely based in numbers and direct statements. When I go on television, I always have someone going like, what if you're wrong? What if you're wrong about this? No one. I know I've watched enough of this bloody kid talking. No one is like, hey, man, what if you're completely wrong? What if you're wrong? No, you have people being like, oh, are you prepping? Are you prepping for the AI apocalypse? And the answer, by the way, is, no, I'm not, because AI is so powerful, I wouldn't be able to stop it. Apologize for ranting, but I'm just, I really find this boy completely putrid.

Isaac Pound

The thing that sticks out for me is the timing. Maybe not necessarily of him quitting now, but also just generally this open AI saying we're going to slow down development. Anthropic. CEO and various other thousand people or so saying we need to pace development while each launch is becoming more iterative and there's diminishing returns on the amount being spent on the training. And again, you said you don't want to go too conspiratorial on this, but a little tinfoil hat for me is the timing does seem a little too clean to say, yeah, we need to pause this. Now it's getting too dangerous. We need to stop everything. Just the fact that we kind of needed to pause anyway is not really the point. We're slowing down, but just it's too scary to continue.

Speaker names from our own diarization · position estimated from where the line sits in the episode
“It is not a moral good to be correct about how much AI can do.” — Ed Zitron, The Tech Report

Zitron had spent the segment arguing that a thin slice of heavy customers carries almost all AI revenue, and that boosters answer that argument by demanding you admit ChatGPT is better. This is his objection to the demand itself: it treats a paid software product as a position on right and wrong. He goes on to say they want the argument kept there so nobody looks at who is actually paying.

The Tech Report · 2026-09-07 Permalink → Listen →
The Tech Report Around 18:22 into the episode
Ed Zitron

It's just that easy. It's 1% now, now it'll be 20%. But that's kind of the thing. It's you have this contingent of customers who are spending lots of money who are likely the largest burden on your infrastructure, which means you can no longer suggest, oh, it's like the gym model where there are a bunch of seats that people buy, they don't use very much, but you're still pulling in the revenue. It means that most of your revenue comes from very OPEX heavy customers. And yes, when those go away, the demand for those GPUs you're renting out also goes away. And these are all take or pay agreements when it comes to the hyperscaler. So with Microsoft Core, we've et al., they are take or pay, which means you have bought this capacity whether you use it or not. You must buy the, you can't just say, oh, I'll go on the meter like an electricity bill. It's no, you say, I'm going to, I'm going to spend. I don't know if it's, I truly, I don't have insight into. Azure or Core Weave contracts, but it's going to be you are renting X critical IT load for Y months or Y years. So that doesn't matter if you have demand for all of those megawatts. It means you have rented them, you will pay for them. This is a big deal. And this groundbreaker piece I mentioned, I'm sure people have seen it, makes this point where this is the equivalent of during the great financial crisis when all of the adjustable rate mortgages switched. So to explain, so in the great financial crisis, a bunch of people got something called a teaser rate. Teaser rate was: okay, your first year is 1% or 4% or something quite low. Then after the teaser rate goes away, suddenly your mortgage goes up to 5%, 6%, 7%, in some cases, 10%. That happened, I think, 2007 was when that big wave hit. In this case, the teaser rate going away is going to be when you sign a compute contract, you go, okay, here's a little bit of money up front to secure that. Thank you kindly. And they go and build the data center. Next year, a bunch of compute capacity is going to come online, or these contracts are just going to start. And suddenly Anthropic and OpenAI are going to have to pony up a bunch of money. This is off the top of my head, rough estimates from UBS, Was Vargo, Al. I think we're talking at least $130 billion worth of compute contracts that they'll have to start paying for. Billions with Torwe, billions with Cerebrus. There's all sorts of money that's going to have to go out the door. Right now, they don't have to spend that money. Next year, it's going to hit them like a tidal wave. And so if they don't have the customer demand to use that compute capacity, they won't have the money to pay for that compute capacity. So they'll have to raise money either way. But it's all, there is a wall coming that they're barreling towards at high speed. And the reason that everyone's not freaking out, the reason that people are not even particularly alarmed is because right now everything's going fine. Nvidia sells GPUs. I mean, Broadcom missed on estimates for next quarter's guidance. I'm sure everyone can find a rationalization for that. My rationalization is the money isn't coming in. Also, the fact that Broadcom's largest customers are going to be Anthropic and OpenAI, that's also bad. So we just have all of these consequences waiting around the corner and everyone just saying, it's not a big deal. We'll deal with it. Like, stop thinking. Stop asking questions. Nothing bad ever happens.

Isaac Pound

I mean, so if we take that 80% from 1% statistic and we kind of extrapolate it out, what does it mean for the narrative that AI is this inevitable thing that has such broad demand and such broad use cases that you got to get on board or get in the bin?

Ed Zitron

It means that whatever AI is, you can put to the side. Most people are not paying for it. It means however useful you may think it is, and I do not think it's that useful at scale. Most people won't pay for it. Most companies, most enterprises, which is where the most of your revenue is going to come from. Sam Altman said in an interview with Alex Heath that once or twice involved journalism over a course of more than an hour, said this point where actually we have more enterprise customers than consumers right now. That's bad, man, because your enterprise customers are not spending that much. This is the only way this works. AI is not a consumer product. They're really trying to make it one. If enterprises won't pay, consumers will definitely not pay. So however useful you may think this is, and I really don't think it is. I think it makes the easy things easier, the hard things harder. It helped me fix a Minecraft thing for my kid. And for that, I am grateful. But again, it's like, how much did it cost to do that? I keep these things, by the way. I pay for like the 20 bucks subscriptions just to take a look occasionally to make sure something big hasn't changed. They can do some computer stuff if you allow them to run rabshot over your computer, which I don't trust. The point is, put aside what I say, most people won't pay for it. Most enterprises will not pay for it. They have signed $1.2 trillion worth of compute commitments based on the idea that everyone will pay for it, when really about 900 companies will pay for it, or a few hundred companies, an indeterminate amount of hundreds of companies will pay for this. And those companies are the only ones that will pay significant money. And we're talking millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions. But again, within that subset of data, we're AI companies that are subsidizing their own users. So it's the answer is, whatever bigness this might have, it's not big in a revenue generating sense. And all of the achievements or improvements you've seen are because they've just crammed as much money into it. What other industries could have done incredible things if you sunk a trillion dollars into them? That is the question to ask. It is a. A ridiculous thing right now where AI boosters will come to you and they will talk to you like a religious fanatic and they will say, Admit it! Admit that ChatGPT is better! Admit to me, you must concede that ChatGPT is better. First of all, none of these idiots will concede a single damn thing about the finances, so screw them. Second of all, this is software you pay for. This is not morals. It is not a moral good to be correct about how much AI can do. On top of that, they're not correct on it, but it's not like liking or disliking a software product you pay money for is not a ideological thing. It's stupid to see it that way. And they want it to be like that so they can push this through so that you'll all stop thinking about one thing, which is that most people will not pay for AI. Even though it's got better in the last year, most people will not pay for it. Most people will pay for a subsidized subscription. But companies, so companies with real budgets, much larger budgets than the average household, than the average person, when given the chance, in fact, only given one option, which is to pay on the API rate, they mostly don't. They mostly don't. Most 1% of customers hold up everything else. And it's quite worrying, honestly, because they very clearly been telling us all how powerful and amazing this is and how widely adopted it is. Who cares if it's not really making money? And I mean, when I say making money as well, sorry, I can't believe I said this. These aren't profitable companies either. Even if they were profitable, this would be horrible. Even if they were like 30% gross margins with training, this would be horrible. Because it means that, just on a fundamental level, it means that it is impossible to grow from here. Like it's just, how do you make more companies spend more money on AI? The AI itself needs to give them real value, real tangible ROI. As we've been over, no one has proven that it has ROI. The companies spending a lot of money are probably just doing a bunch of coding. I've heard from large companies that are using it. I've talked to them. It is just people throwing everything in there. It's being like, how do I do document?

Isaac Pound

You know that feeling. Too many updates? Too many meetings? Too many things falling through the cracks. Monday.com was built for that gap. The AI work platform designed from the ground up for people and agents to work side by side and deliver more together. Drafting the brief, flagging risks, running a competitive scan, your agent can do it all. And the best part, anyone can build one. Even you. Try it. Create your first Monday agent today at Monday.com.

Speaker 2

A BetterHelp ad. Matching with my therapist was very quick and easy. I just filled out a couple of questions. Before you know it, I was matched with a therapist. I just felt like a weight just was lifted off of my shoulders. I felt like it was a good match from the first time we talked. ButterHelp is there to meet people at their needs, giving them a space to feel safe. There's a stigma about therapy. But with BetterHelp, I need people where they are. Wherever you are, that's where BetterHelp begins. Visit betterhelp.com/slash random podcast to get started.

Speaker 1

Pay testimonials. Results may vary.

Speaker names from our own diarization · position estimated from where the line sits in the episode

Collections They Appear In