HL

Hongbin Li

Things Hongbin Says on Podcasts

Where to Find Them

Hongbin Li has been a guest on What Happens Next in 6 Minutes .

Recently: “How High-Stakes Chinese College Exams Can Change Your Life” on What Happens Next in 6 Minutes (October 2026).

What They Said

“The most important thing is still opportunity. In the U.S., there are so many chances in your life. In China, this is almost the only opportunity. So that's why people work so hard on it.” — Hongbin Li, What Happens Next in 6 Minutes

Asked what it says about each society that China has a single high-stakes college exam and the United States doesn't. Earlier he described how the test is written fresh each year by top professors, in multiple versions, to prevent cheating.

What Happens Next in 6 Minutes · 2026-10-17 Permalink → Listen →
What Happens Next in 6 Minutes Around 27:20 into the episode
Hongbin Li

…come up with the set of questions for each year's exam. And there are 10 different tests in order to prevent cheating. They don't know which one they can use even. That's why you need to be really flexible in your mind to solve these questions really fast. Those tests are much harder than AP tests.

Larry Bernstein

There's a reason the Chinese have a high-stakes exam and the United States doesn't. It reflects something deep in each society. What is that?

Hongbin Li

The most important thing is still opportunity. In the U.S., there are so many chances in your life. In China, this is almost the only opportunity. So that's why people work so hard on it.

Larry Bernstein

Thanks to Hong Bin for joining us. If you missed our previous podcast, it was AI and Human Connections. Our first speaker was Allison Pugh, a professor of sociology at Johns Hopkins, and the author of a new book entitled The Last Human Job: Seeing Each Other in an Age of Automation. Our second…

Speaker names from our own diarization · position estimated from where the line sits in the episode
“What the Qing emperor did is he abolished the test. Then suddenly, all the elites in China lost the hope to move up the hierarchy. They went up to protest and overthrow the government. That's the end of Qing dynasty, basically.” — Hongbin Li, What Happens Next in 6 Minutes

The economist, who studies China's high-stakes college entrance exam, is explaining why it is here to stay. The Cultural Revolution was one time the exam disappeared; the other was the end of the imperial exams around 1911, when elites blamed them for China falling behind.

What Happens Next in 6 Minutes · 2026-10-17 Permalink → Listen →
What Happens Next in 6 Minutes Around 15:50 into the episode
Hongbin Li

high schools were after shutdown. All the students, they self-learned by themselves. They never went to school.

Larry Bernstein

One conclusion of your book is that the high-stakes exam is here to stay. There's nothing like taking something away to make people recognize its importance. They felt that the exam was fair and it allowed for social mobility based on merit.

Hongbin Li

Cultural version is one time that it was gone. The other time was at the end of the Qing dynasty around 1911. China's elites at that time believed that China was backward because the imperial exams, memorizing some classics. But European countries are doing STEM such as technology. What the Qing emperor did is he abolished the test. Then suddenly, all the elites in China lost the hope to move up the hierarchy. They went up to protest and overthrow the government. That's the end of Qing dynasty, basically. In 1911, the Republic of China was established. This is the other time that China abolished this system and didn't end up well.

Larry Bernstein

I took AP exams at Nutrition High School. Because the AP test was well defined, teachers could teach for the test and students could master the material. Recently, some American high schools have revolted and stopped offering AP classes. How do you feel about the loss of accountability versus the…

Hongbin Li

What is education before college from K to 12? What is the best way to select students into college? So these are two separate questions. So one is about what you should learn. We don't know actually. Schools were created 200 years ago. We haven't changed it much, how we teach, how we test…

Larry Bernstein

College tuition costs have exceeded inflation for decades, yet access to information is becoming nearly free. That would put a lot of pressure on schools because when you lose your monopoly, the moat is gone.

Speaker names from our own diarization · position estimated from where the line sits in the episode