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Titus Winters

Things Titus Says on Podcasts

Where to Find Them

Titus Winters has been a guest on CppCast (3 times) and The Pragmatic Engineer .

Recently: “Software engineering at Google & CS education with Titus Winters” on The Pragmatic Engineer (October 2026); “The C++ ABI” on CppCast (November 2019); “SG15 Tooling Group” on CppCast (June 2018); “Abseil” on CppCast (October 2017).

What They Said

“The resilience to avoid just copying your ticket into an AI prompt and then trying to check in that result. Like if that is all that you are doing, you can be replaced with a very small shell script. Like that is not a defensible advantage for you being on staff.” — Titus Winters, The Pragmatic Engineer

Asked what junior engineers should focus on now that AI writes code, Winters puts this first. He adds that AI isn't accountable, so engineers have to stand behind every pull request with their name on it.

The Pragmatic Engineer · 2026-10-29 Permalink → Listen →
The Pragmatic Engineer
Titus Winters

…about there being one project course in most degrees because you know what no team has ever looked like? A bunch of people with exactly the same level of background, right? Like it also gives the wrong taste about this is what teamwork is. Like, I'll take it. It's better than not doing it. But

Speaker 3

…a workforce of just today with just the capability that we have, what do you think the fundamentals are that they should focus on? And what are the things that they should just rely on AI? There's always a question of like, should you just ask AI for this or should you learn the basics, right?

Titus Winters

…everyone that's currently working has grown up in an era where there was a playbook. Like we know, at least in theory, the right way to do this. And there's no playbook right now, right? So we all have to get a little comfortable of not knowing the answer. And we certainly don't know the answer on what is still the basics. The things that I think that the juniors should be focusing on. One, the resilience to avoid just copying your ticket into an AI prompt and then trying to check in that result. Like if that is all that you are doing, you can be replaced with a very small shell script. Like that is not a defensible advantage for you being on staff. I think it's really important to use AI to better yourself and to widen your inputs, but not to immediately produce all of your outputs. There's a metaphor that I really liked from about a year ago at a think tank. We called it Andrew's Axe. And it's, if I go chop down a tree with an axe, I do not say that it was the axe that chopped down the tree. It's me that chopped down the tree. The AI, as…

Speaker 3

And they actually have the autonomy and the drive to use this. Right.

Titus Winters

And the, the, and the metacognitive resources to avoid that, like, I'm just going to copy and paste, right? The very worst students are somewhat better because they used to not be able to do anything, but now they can produce slop.

Speaker 3

Yeah, they're just so on slop, yeah, which is a bit harder to detect, but I get what you're going.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“A lot of the value of AI is not in doing the same thing faster. It's doing a harder, more valuable thing that you wouldn't have even thought about. And if your productivity measures are the logical equivalent of counting how many widgets are coming out of the factory, and then you start producing super gold-plated deluxe widgets, there's no way to measure that.” — Titus Winters, The Pragmatic Engineer

Winters is reconciling two facts: research hasn't shown AI productivity gains above roughly 20–30%, yet engineers report 10x experiences. His answer is that the metrics count output, not the value of what is now possible, such as writing a JPEG parser in a couple of weeks.

The Pragmatic Engineer · 2026-10-29 Permalink → Listen →
The Pragmatic Engineer
Titus Winters

…for instance, it is entirely possible at this point. And I hang out in security spaces and do a lot of low-level C ⁇ library stuff. You can write a JPEG parser in a couple of weeks. With whatever additional features you need. That would be insane to say that word sentence out loud three years ago.

Speaker 3

…they can relicense. And suddenly, the game was completely changed. If this person would have gone ahead with, let's say, the layoffs, this engineer might have just got it. And no one might have known that the game could be changed because of this. AI makes things crazy things sometimes possible.

Titus Winters

Right, exactly. And so I think that this is the insight that tries to bridge the gap between, I have not seen a research-based number that says productivity post-AI is up more than like 20 or 30%. But then everyone talks about like these 10x sort of experiences. I super don't think it's actually 10x, but yeah. But like, how do you bridge that gap? And I think it's exactly this thing of a lot of the value of AI is not in doing the same thing faster. It's doing a harder, more valuable thing that you wouldn't have even thought about. And if your productivity measures are the logical equivalent of counting how many widgets are coming out of the factory, and then you start producing super gold-plated deluxe widgets, there's no way to measure that or track that over time because we just don't have the tracking of what's the value of this component or feature. And that also matches with, you know, talking with senior engineers that are like, yes, we're up 70% on amount of code. We're up 30% on outages. Number of features is the same. The thing that we Can't know for sure is: are the value of those features up? Because what's how do you, how do you do…

Speaker 3

One challenge that AI is giving is entering the market for new graduates. There's now, there seems to be expectation companies are very eager to hire senior engineers who know how to use AI and they have taste and judgment. And we have these things thrown around. It's not deliberate, but whenever I…

Titus Winters

I will riff a little on my bona fides there to like to add some weight to this. So after the book, I got recruited into the ACM IEEE AAAI work on setting the curriculum requirements for an undergraduate CS degree. So this is like the professional societies saying these are the things that we need…

Gergely Orosz

Okay.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“Stop grading just the code that they turned in. Grade instead, what are the prompts that you used to get here? Also, what are the tests that you provided?… We don't need another essay on Catcher… We don't need another linked list. We've been using the artifact that's produced from that as a proxy for you put in the time and the struggle… It might be more appropriate to just focus on: do we have evidence that you've struggled and learned?” — Titus Winters, The Pragmatic Engineer

Winters, who sat on the ACM/IEEE computer science curriculum committee, on how assessment should change now that students use AI. He argues that treating all AI use as cheating can't hold, so schools should grade the process rather than the finished artifact.

The Pragmatic Engineer · 2026-10-29 Permalink → Listen →
The Pragmatic Engineer
Titus Winters

…are the new learning objectives and how do you make that still frictionful in the ways that cause them to think and learn about different things, like almost certainly at a higher level. Right. But like that's actually the key to undergraduate education and curriculum design and assessment. Well,

Speaker 3

…Because now you cannot just fully fake it and go away, give it to a friend or just have Claude do it. You're now showing your cognitive ability. The interviewer can push you into uncomfortable, you know, they'll get a gauge of like how expert you are and push you further and further and so on.

Titus Winters

Yeah, exactly. And at the undergraduate level, like there is some move towards more oral exams and those sort of things. But also, I think a really simple solution is stop grading just the outcome. Focus on the process. Right. Like even if you don't come up with wildly harder. Assignments for assessment. Stop grading just the code that they turned in. Grade instead, what are the prompts that you used to get here? Also, what are the tests that you provided? Like, how did you make sure that this thing is actually doing what you need it to do? And when you start focusing on the process that got you there instead of just the outcome, I think not only CS, but most disciplines, right? Like, we've been using, go write a new essay on Catcher in the Rye. Like, we don't need another essay on Catcher, right? Go write a new linked list. We don't need another linked list. We've been using the artifact that's produced from that as a proxy for you put in the time and the struggle and like faced the friction that we assume that you now have learned something. It might be more appropriate to just focus on: do we have evidence that you've struggled and learned? Turn in the whole package, right?

Speaker 3

Curriculums are designed by committees, which is for a good reason. But if you had Titus's software engineering school where you could yourself put together the curriculum and study course for an undergrad course of, let's say, three to four years, how would it look like right now? And we're…

Titus Winters

Yeah. So I think the first course, like first semester, starts unaided by AI. Like we need to get you through at least the level that you can read code and have a vague idea of what's going on, like can understand control flow and those sorts of things. I think there's some really interesting…

Speaker 3

I want to get opinionated at that. Yeah.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

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