RC

Robert Caro

Things Robert Says on Podcasts

Where to Find Them

Robert Caro has been a guest on 99% Invisible (3 times) , The Ezra Klein Show , Dwarkesh Podcast and The Daily (NYT) .

Recently: “Robert Caro – The master biographer reflects at 91” on Dwarkesh Podcast (October 2026); “The Power Broker #12: Robert Caro” on 99% Invisible (December 2024); “Roman, Elliott, and Robert Caro: Live in Conversation” on 99% Invisible (November 2024); “Book Review: Robert Caro on 50 Years of ‘The Power Broker’” on The Ezra Klein Show (October 2024); “'Book Review': Robert Caro on 50 Years of 'The Power Broker'” on The Daily (NYT) (September 2024); “The Power Broker #1: Robert Caro” on 99% Invisible (January 2024).

What They Said

“Before I start a book, I think through what I want the book to be, the whole book. … You got to get it down to one sentence. Or three years from now, you're going to be writing and you're going to be saying, what am I trying to do?” — Robert Caro, Dwarkesh Podcast

Dwarkesh asked how Caro stays on track when a book takes years and almost nobody sees the manuscript. Caro says he learned this the hard way on The Power Broker: before writing anything, he boils the book down to a sentence, or at most a paragraph.

Dwarkesh Podcast · 2026-10-30 Permalink → Listen →
Dwarkesh Podcast
Robert Caro

Okay.

Dwarkesh Patel

…people who have seen the manuscript. So how do you make sure you're on the right track? Because, you know, you had to wait so long from when you start to when you get public feedback. How do you make sure that everything's going to hang together and you're pursuing the message the way you want to?

Robert Caro

Well, part of your question is, how do you be sure you're on the right track? The answer to that is you're not, okay? But how do you try to stay on the right track? I do have a device for that. Before I start a book, I learned this the hard way with the power broker because I didn't do it with the power broker. Before I start a book, I think through what I want the book to be, the whole book. People say, you mean you think it through to the end? Well, the answer is yes. And then you say, well, what is this book about? I said at that desk sometimes for a long time before I start right when I'm thinking about the book, just asking myself in one way or another, what is this book about? You got to get it down to one sentence. You say, well, you can't get it down to one sentence. Then you…

Dwarkesh Patel

Back in August, my sponsor, Jane Street, released the design files for a mystery chip and challenged my audience to figure out its true purpose. The challenge is over, and Jane Street has released a blog post highlighting some of their favorite submissions. They also revealed the ASIC's purpose. I…

Speaker 3

I think my favorite submission was probably this insane visualization made by Chartan Van Driel and Leander Post, who started by showing in 3D how a chip is made from standard cells, how all of the metal layers fit together to actually comprise the logic of the chip, and then showed each component…

Dwarkesh Patel

Don't worry if you missed this challenge. There's a new one live right now. So

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“Behind his persuasion was the power. … When Johnson is talking to you and he puts his arm around you and he leans into you, it's not just the force of his personality that he's bringing to bear on you. Behind that personality, you know he has the power to do things to you or for you that you better be aware of.” — Robert Caro, Dwarkesh Podcast

Asked whether Lyndon Johnson's power came from leverage or persuasion. Caro says the famous "Johnson treatment" only worked because every senator knew Johnson controlled the committee seats and bills they wanted.

Dwarkesh Podcast · 2026-10-30 Permalink → Listen →
Dwarkesh Podcast
Robert Caro

Exactly.

Dwarkesh Patel

And of the two, I'm curious which was really the source of his power, his leverage or his persuasion.

Robert Caro

Behind his persuasion was the power. When you were talking to him, if he asked something of you, you knew he had the power behind him to give you or deny you things that you wanted. Say he was asking a senator something for a vote on a specific issue. The senator might not agree with him, might not want to give him the vote, but he would know he wants a committee assignment. Johnson has the power to give him that or not. Or he would know he wants a specific law and Johnson has the power to get that law passed or not. So behind everything, when Johnson is talking to you and he puts his arm around you and he leans into you, it's not just the force of his personality that he's bringing to bear on you. Behind that personality, you know he has the power to do things to you or for you that you better be aware of.

Dwarkesh Patel

Means of Ascent, the book about the election with Coke Stevenson, the 1948 Senate election.

Robert Caro

Yes.

Dwarkesh Patel

That is my favorite book perhaps ever. And you paint such a compelling portrait of this person, Coke Stevenson, you know, governor of Texas. They called him Mr. Texas.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“Every once in a while, someone comes along who's sort of a genius, if that's the right word, at getting big things built for the public. Decades may pass when there's no one like that. And you say everything's stalled, nothing big is ever going to be built again. And then someone suddenly comes along and all of a sudden things get built.” — Robert Caro, Dwarkesh Podcast

Dwarkesh Patel asked how democracies can get big projects built, pointing to California's years of rail spending with no new track. Caro answered that he's not sure there is a good middle ground, and that progress tends to wait for a rare political genius like Robert Moses or Lyndon Johnson.

Dwarkesh Podcast · 2026-10-30 Permalink → Listen →
Dwarkesh Podcast
Robert Caro

…they were saying the same thing. Nobody's ever going to build. We need roads for the automobiles, but they'd have to go through hundreds, dozens of farms, scores of property. No one's ever going to be able to do it. But he comes along and does it. So today, someone would come along and do it.

Dwarkesh Patel

…City in the 40s and 50s, where they have a very Moses-type attitude and they put up tens of thousands of miles of railways over the last 10, 20 years. But of course, at the cost of similar amounts of displacements of people and recklessness. So how do we land in a good spot between either extreme?

Robert Caro

…out into Long Island because the road would have to cross scores of properties. most of which the people didn't want the road coming and had the power to stop them then because he didn't have the power of eminent domain then. But Moses said, basically, I'm going to build it. And he would find a way to overcome each difficulty. Now you say, what am I trying to say by that? Trying to say that every once in a while, someone comes along who's sort of a genius, if that's the right word, at getting big things built for the public. Decades may pass when there's no one like that. And you say everything's stalled, nothing big is ever going to be built again. And then someone suddenly comes along and all of a sudden things get built. That's the nature of political genius. I happen to be writing about two guys, Lyndon Johnson and Robert Moses, who in both cases, Johnson with civil rights and Moses with public works, where people were saying, you can't do this, but they did it.

Dwarkesh Patel

Correct me if I'm putting words in your mouth, but if I may attempt an interpretation of what you said.

Robert Caro

Yes.

Dwarkesh Patel

It sounds like you think we need a little Moses today.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

Collections They Appear In