James Sun had described building his wife a custom trainer for an online board game she was losing at. Weinstein, who works on computer use at OpenAI, picks up the point: humans are hardwired for direct manipulation, so cheap software won't make apps vanish, it will make them personal.
because all the software is going to work with agents by default. And I think WebMCP is a great example of this. And I think we'll see more stuff like that. So yeah, I sort of expect both to be super important, but I do think it'll kind of shift over time. What do you think, James?
…going away. And I think kind of at the low tangentiary original question, but I do think that the pressure of cheap software will make it so that software has to be better. But I don't think it will just be like, yeah, everything will have an MCP and an API and computer use will never be useful.
I love this point so much. I think that like humans are so hard. Hardwired for direct manipulation. You really want to be able to, you know, move and do things with your own hands. And I think that it's really exciting to think about how software in the past was so one size fits all and it had to be, you know, often a lot of the software we interact with every day is designed for millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions, billions of people to use. And I think we will enter an era where any piece of software could be designed for 100 people or one person. And just how much more personal and unique that kind of software will be.
Yeah, my mental model is I think there's probably two buckets. One is on the consumer side, you've got either something you just get, you get joy out of, you can enjoy using, or you learn from there is this, it's not the utility of it, it's the joy of interacting or learning or whatever it is, and…
I do think it'll be really interesting to see if we, and I'm optimistic that we will see new kinds of software where it has traditional user interfaces, but is also using agents under the hood. And then maybe sometimes those agents are themselves using computer use to automate legacy software by…
Yeah. It's kind of like the one where we like to use internet. It's like the shared intelligence layer, right? Like if you have your agent using legacy software somewhere else and doing things at other places, if you're using an application, the application wants to get access to that context so…