SD

Sam Dunning

Things Sam Says on Podcasts

Where to Find Them

Sam Dunning has been a guest on The B2B Playbook (5 times) , The Marketing Millennials (2 times) , Right About Now - Legendary Business Advice (2 times) , The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™ , Strategy Hour | Online Marketing for Business Growth , The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast , Sales Gravy: Jeb Blount , The Art of Sales with Art Sobczak , Embracing Marketing Mistakes and Sales Leadership Podcast .

Recently: “SaaS SEO In The Age Of AI” on The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™ (November 2026); “EP 134: The 20-Searches-A-Month Page That Booked Seven Sales Calls” on Embracing Marketing Mistakes (October 2026); “#236: SEO & AEO Strategy to Drive Pipeline in 90 Days - Sam Dunning” on The B2B Playbook (June 2026); “How to Build a Website That Actually Converts With Sam Dunning” on Right About Now - Legendary Business Advice (February 2026); “972: The Future of Search: SEO vs LLM Optimization with Sam Dunning” on Strategy Hour | Online Marketing for Business Growth (July 2025); “#190: How to Rank in ChatGPT First: The 90-Day LLM SEO Playbook (SEO expert Sam Dunning)” on The B2B Playbook (July 2025).

What They Said

“No joke, I've seen enterprise companies take 12 full months to get one page shipped. And that one page, by the time they shipped it live, was completely off. The page intent was wrong, the structure was wrong, it had no chance to rank. It was meant to be a listicle. They published it as a landing page.” — Sam Dunning, The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™

Sam was explaining why some SaaS companies aren't ready for SEO. He argues small, fast startups have an unfair advantage over slow, approval-heavy enterprises.

The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™ · 2026-11-02 Permalink → Listen →
The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™ Around 28:24 into the episode
Sam Dunning

…and it says for enterprise only. Or likewise, we're not scaring off enterprise because they see, oh, if a startup starts at like 27 bucks a month because they think you're too small and you can't handle them. So it's really important and it gets messed up terribly by a lot of SaaS companies.

Matthew Bertram

…the existing customer, getting a referral, like if when you start looking at those numbers, like that that's where where I'm starting to see the advantage uh of companies that are are are spending their their resource allocation looking at opportunities there. I don't know, what are you seeing?

Sam Dunning

All sorts. Um, yeah, so I I can only really speak to the SaaS market specifically because that's what we do day in, day out. But we I would argue that a lot of SaaS companies aren't actually in a good position to start SEO. Like we're we're pretty sick in the sense we turn away a ton of business. We'll just simply say, look, you're not ready yet, come back in like three months, six months when it makes sense, or you don't have the budget to make this a good program. But by all means, here's some here's some material to to make it happen. Just like yourself, we've got a podcast where we share plenty of breakdowns that they can watch or listen to. Um but what what I'd say is I think there's an equal balance because I'd say if you're SAS, for example, if you're more early stage and you don't have you don't have clear positioning, you don't know the top three most expensive problems you solve, you don't know like exactly why folks would move from a competitor to you. Um, you haven't done like a bunch of customer interviews for recent one clients, recent churn clients. You don't know what…

Matthew Bertram

Yeah, well, so Sam, I know we're getting a little close to time. It's uh right after the holidays, so we're getting back into it. So I I really appreciate you coming on. Is there anything else in this conversation that we really didn't touch on that you think would be helpful if people are…

Sam Dunning

I suppose that the main thing is that I think getting the basics right, like pulling everything we talked about in terms of research, product research, positioning, and stuff like that, um, understanding every entry point that a SaaS company could potentially take when they have that buying intent…

Matthew Bertram

Yeah, I I think that's a great kind of unknown secret of internet marketing, if you will. Um, I think that that is something that I've been saying for years is just kind of it, it's really like what is working, why is it working, how do we reverse engineer it, put that together, kind of one up it…

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“All the top funnel content, we call it the top funnel traffic trap, is just being eaten up by AI Overviews. ChatGPT and LLMs are pulling that information from their own inventory and they're not actually recommending brands. And by building informational content, you're more likely to attract researchers or folks trying to learn your niche, not folks in market for your solution.” — Sam Dunning, The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™

Asked what SaaS founders are worried about with AI, Sam describes agencies still running SEO like it's 2020, with how-to and what-is articles. He says that content now feeds AI answers and attracts people who aren't buyers.

The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™ · 2026-11-02 Permalink → Listen →
The Best SEO Podcast: Defining the Future of Search with LLM Visibility™ Around 08:21 into the episode
Sam Dunning

…a month, and and then they'll actually try and run it and realize actually there's a lot of security implementations here. There's a lot a lot of things I've never thought about. And if I run and roll this out, there's a lot more to it than I initially thought. So it's a fun, it's a crazy time.

Matthew Bertram

…you're when you're talking to those teams and those owners? What's going on in their mind right now with with AI? Are they concerned about uh their their moats uh with the business? Like how are they approaching it? Like what are they investing in? I'm curious what what's going on in their head?

Sam Dunning

Yeah, I can tell you because we speak to a lot of SaaS founders and SaaS marketing leaders and growth leaders every each and every week. So usually that there's a few main pain points that come up and there's a few frustrations, and usually what causes them to initially reach out to a company like ours is probably it's got to the point where the marketing team have pushed for SEO, maybe for months or years, and eventually the CEO of the company or the founders got frustrated because every time he or she is going into ChatGPT or Claude and looking for their software, comparing options, looking for the problem they solve, they keep seeing competitors recommended instead of them, and then they'll finally hit that tipping point where they're like, yeah, we need to do some of this. We need we need to do AI SEO or GEO or AEO, and we need to start being kind of recommended to prospects because as you know well, Matthew, the the buying journey journey, especially in B2B, has changed massively. And I'm sure it's similar with kind of the folks you work with, but a lot of um a lot of websites that we we're kind of helping in SaaS companies, their traffic's massively down…

Matthew Bertram

Yeah, so I think like middle of the funnel, maybe um, listicles are starting to be really, really big. And I feel like SaaS has not uh like other industries, maybe like top 10 lists or uh comparison charts and stuff like that, might be newer to other niches, but to SAS, it's it's kind of always…

Sam Dunning

Yeah, I think unfortunately, listicle-based articles, comparison articles, best of lists, X versus Y they're a necessary evil in SaaS, SEO, and AI search. And I guess the reason why is there's you've probably heard of the 95.5 rule. At one given time, only five percent of your roughly five percent…

Matthew Bertram

Yeah.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.