John Gertz

Things John Says on Podcasts

He is president and CEO of Zorro Productions and a longtime SETI Institute board member, having chaired its board for three terms. His actual beat is a skeptical, technically grounded critique of how the search for extraterrestrial intelligence is usually framed: he argues against relying on the Drake Equation and the Fermi Paradox, questions active messaging to other stars (METI), and pushes the field to plan seriously for how Earth would respond if contact happened, including the possibility that probes are already nearby. That argument is laid out in his book Reinventing SETI, published by Oxford University Press. He is best known outside SETI circles as the founder of Zorro Productions, which has made Zorro films, TV series and stage shows since 1977 and co-published a bestselling Zorro novel with Isabel Allende. On the SETI side he appears on science-focused podcasts and outlets like Lawrence Krauss's Origins Podcast, Scientific American and Gizmodo to make the case in Reinventing SETI.

Where to Find Them

John Gertz has been a guest on The Origins Podcast with Lawrence Krauss (2 times) , Your Space Journey and Critical Mass .

Recently: “(Ad-free Video) Searching for Aliens. The wrong way? A dialogue with John Gertz.” on The Origins Podcast with Lawrence Krauss (September 2026); “Searching for Aliens. The Wrong Way? A dialogue with John Gertz” on Critical Mass (September 2026); “Searching for Aliens. The Wrong Way? A dialogue with John Gertz” on The Origins Podcast with Lawrence Krauss (September 2026); “Reinventing SETI: Why Aliens Might Be Watching Us Now | Interview with John Gertz” on Your Space Journey (August 2025).

What They Said

“His eponymous equation, the Drake equation, is absolutely ready for the ash heap of history. It's completely worthless from beginning to end.” — John Gertz, The Origins Podcast with Lawrence Krauss

Gertz had just called Frank Drake a dear friend and a lovely man, then dismissed the formula Drake is remembered for. He and Krauss were working through why nobody has heard from anyone; Gertz's answer is that the field's founding equation is a sacred cow that survives on sentiment. The longest chapter of his book is about taking it apart.

The Origins Podcast with Lawrence Krauss · 2026-09-08 Permalink → Listen →
The Origins Podcast with Lawrence Krauss Around 1:05:25 into the episode
John Gertz

situation and stay right in your own solar system. And you said you're going to get there, so I'll let you do that. Yeah, yeah.

Lawrence M. Krauss

…which calling it an equation, it seems to me, is an insult to equations because it's more a mnemonic. It's not a mnemonic. And it doesn't really allow you to calculate anything. It just make it allows you to make wild estimates that anyone can make and come up with vastly different answers.

John Gertz

It's worse than that, Lawrence. I mean, I should say that Frank was a dear friend and close colleague. And a lovely man. Lovely, lovely person. You know, knew him as well. Lovely man. His eponymous equation, the Drake equation, is absolutely ready for the ash heap of history. It's completely worthless from beginning to end. And

Lawrence M. Krauss

you call it a sacred cow, and I was reminded of the

John Gertz

longest chapter in my book called And it's great because it

Lawrence M. Krauss

allows you to codify the problems. That's why I want to go through it because I think it's really informative. But it did remind me when you talk about Drake of the famous statement, you didn't come to praise Caesar, but to bury him. That's the way it is about the equation. So the equation, the…

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

Collections They Appear In