“I like to say that in the technology world, Moore's Law is increasing productivity, doubling it every 18 months. And with AI, maybe that's quadrupling it every five months. The legislative calendar works more on a Murphy's Law timetable. … We're going to need a regulatory body that has real discretion and real expertise that can move a lot quicker than Congress can.”

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I think the gun metaphor is a good one. It's easy to grab onto for a variety of reasons, but I tend to think that it kind of obscures the reality of the capabilities of the model. So OpenAI's latest model, mythos, it can be used for offensive cyber attacks, and it can be used on defense too. And the cybersecurity firms that we cover, they want it. And their argument is we actually need to take humans out of the loop so that our cyber defenses can be as responsive and fast to incoming AI-powered cyber attacks. And if we insistently put humans in the loop, then we will be slow and the attackers won't have the same morals or ethical qualms we do and we'll lose. And this is all just a dance around, well, the model in this case can be used on offense and on defense, and it should be equally capable on both sides. I don't see a regulatory framework that provides clarity for any of the frontier labs to be able to sell that thing and not feel like, well, if the equally capable defensive model gets used in the wrong way, that they won't be liable. And I think that's frozen some of this development in its tracks. I'm wondering, again, just from a legislative perspective, these are thorny questions, right? If you try to go write a bill to provide some of this clarity, it will necessarily have to be vague on the margins, right? Because the technology is moving so fast. What is that debate like for you?

Well, in addition to being a bad lawyer, I was a very bad law student, mostly majored in Miller-Light. But it's fine because every foundational precedent that I was taught in law school in 2003 has been overturned by this Supreme Court. And the most important one in this context is Chevron deference, right? In Loperbright, the court said, we no longer have to defer to the experts as agencies. Go ahead, corporate interests, tie every regulation up in litigation, and then we'll decide. The Roberts Court will decide if these are appropriate regulations. This strikes me as a huge problem for the idea that we will set up a regulatory body to oversee AI. Because what you'd want is a bunch of experts in that agency making decisions on the margin, right? Saying, okay, here's a vague enabling statute that Congress passed that said, pass all appropriate regulations to keep us safe. And then you would write a bunch of regulations inside the agency. Until 2024, that's how it would work. That's gone, right? If you enable an agency in that way, Open Ad can show up and say that's inappropriate. We actually don't think that's right. And they would tie it up in litigation forever. How do you get over that if you want to set up a regulatory body?

It's very difficult for the reason you mentioned. The Supreme Court is a lot of things today. It is now a partisan institution. It is, in my view, a right-wing social institution. But there's one common denominator that runs through its decisions. That common denominator is not always pro-Trump. The common denominator is money. That court makes the decision where the money is. So when it involves, for example, tariff decisions, it will rule against the president because tariffs impact the money. It will allow the president to remove independent heads of agencies, except maybe the Federal Reserve, because that's where the money is. And so you're right. They are corporatists, you know, first and foremost, and they're more than content to take power away from Congress to regulate and away from regulatory bodies. It does mean that we're going to have to draft legislation in this area empowering the agency and make it as specific as we can, make these agencies as powerful as we can, delegate as well as we can, knowing that the Supreme Court will strike down anything that is in any way ambiguous if it suits the moneyed interests.

There's a lot of political realignment happening around AI and with privacy, which I want to talk about in a little bit. But it feels like there's more across the board antipathy towards AI companies that might be harnessed into writing an actual piece of legislation and getting it passed, right? We see it on the right and the left. You see it in the backlash to data centers. This is a story that is happening on the right and the left. We have a big story about the Utah data center that is Kevin O'Leary. He got himself in trouble for calling all of his detractors Chinese agents, and he had to issue an apology because the people of Utah are not Chinese agents. That doesn't feel like a left-right breakdown to me. How does that feel to you? Is this something that you can actually channel from across the spectrum into a meaningful policy outcome?