“I think that social media as we have it is hell. It's truly the most literal panopticon — we're bugs trapped under a little glass.”

I think that social media as we have it is hell. I think it is a, it's like truly the most literal panopticon. We're bugs trapped under a little glass and it's self it's hard because I think the frustration is that there's there's multiple frustrations. One is that we all see that this is evil, but I think the other layers of that is we are also conditioned to attack each other individually instead of attacking the like systemic issues, the larger problems, which is that they are like clinically testing these features to make sure that people become addicted. And I think people are embarrassed to admit that they're addicted to Instagram or their phones or, or they'll say it in a jokey way. But I do think it is, I think it's a systemic thing. I think these companies are really in a very like standardly evil way doing things they know will affect us in the negative in the whole to make money and to keep people trapped…