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AA Anastasios Angelopoulos Anastasios Angelopoulos On The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

“We were looking through our traces and we saw tons and tons of traces that were just 'thank you.' And that costs you $40. Why is this happening? Somebody did a long-running task, let their agent go, it created some artifacts, very long conversation. They left for a day, came back. The cache was invalidated. They're happy with the results, so they say thank you and enter. That's a $40 charge. We're burning VC money.”

The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis · AI Research & Frontier Labs · October 2026

“We were looking through our traces and we saw tons and tons of traces that were just 'thank you.' And that costs you $40. Why is this happening? Somebody did a long-running task, let their agent go, it created some artifacts, very long conversation. They left for a day, came back. The cache was invalidated. They're happy with the results, so they say thank you and enter. That's a $40 charge. We're burning VC money.” — Anastasios Angelopoulos, The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

Context

Asked why Arena built a model router, he describes the internal spending that prompted it. In long agent sessions with an expired cache, even a polite closing message can be expensive.

Transcript

The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis Around 19:01 into the episode
Anastasios Angelopoulos

…more because every question is fresh. It's like you're constantly taking new tests. It's not like you have the same test and you're taking it many times. And so, you know, I worry if that's the direction that the ecosystem is going, that we're going to set ourselves up for failure in the long run.

Speaker 4

So let's talk a little bit about model routing. So I believe you guys have just introduced a model router. Can you explain kind of like the business kind of reasons or the user reasons for introducing a router?

Anastasios Angelopoulos

So let me tell you what we saw internally at Arena. At some point, we were looking at all our traces that are being done on our coding agents internally. By the way, we spend, we're like in the top, you know, less than 1% of businesses in terms of AI spend. We're spending thousands of dollars a month per employee on AI just to help us accelerate our workflow. That's why our sort of revenue to employee ratio is crazy off the charts because we're using a lot of agents internally to do our work. Now, what happened is that we were looking through our traces and we saw. These traces, tons and tons of traces that were like, thank you. And then that costs you $40. What? Why is this happening? It's because somebody did a long-running task. They let their agent go. It created some artifacts, blah, blah, blah. Very long conversation. They left for a day. They came back. The cash was invalidated. And they're happy with the results. So they say thank you and enter. And that's a $40 charge. Terrible. Terrible, terrible. We're burning money. We're burning VC money. Right? We shouldn't do that. What we should do is we should figure out which tokens are best spent on frontier models. You know, which tokens are…

Speaker 3

What can you tell us about the new Gemini 4 Carbon? I think this has literally come out and appeared on the arena leaderboard while we've been live.

Anastasios Angelopoulos

And, you know, where it really shines, it shines on steerability. It's able to land user corrections really effectively. It shines on task completion. It shines on user preference. Users love working with this model. It's great at 3D design. It's great at general agentic work with documents.…

Nathan Labenz

Hey,

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

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