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AD Angela Duckworth Angela Duckworth Psychologist and MacArthur Fellow, the Rosa Lee and Egbert Chang Professor at the University of Pennsylvania, who studies the personal qualities and situational...

“The idea that agency extends beyond the mind. I think we're still stuck in the received wisdom that you can't change your situation, but you can change how you respond to it. And I think that's wrong. I don't think that's good advice for young people or any of us.”

EconTalk · In-Depth Interviews · October 2026

“The idea that agency extends beyond the mind. I think we're still stuck in the received wisdom that you can't change your situation, but you can change how you respond to it. And I think that's wrong. I don't think that's good advice for young people or any of us.” — Angela Duckworth, EconTalk

Duckworth on the argument of her new book about the power of situations. Russ Roberts had described installing an app that slows him down before opening social media. She says the real agency was in choosing to install it, which philosophers have not yet taken seriously.

Transcript

EconTalk Around 34:25 into the episode
Angela Duckworth

That's very good. I like that too. Anyway, nice little twist there at the end. But

Russ Roberts

my point is that, you know, there's, I really like the metaphor of the three boxes. And the reason I like it is it forces you to remember that first box, the environment you're in, and that you can change it. And I think it's really important. So that's, I think, really important. I

Angela Duckworth

think, like, this, thank you. I, I mean, candidly, writing this book nearly killed me. It was so hard. It was definitely, and by far, the hardest thing I ever did professionally. And maybe because my identity is bound up with my professional achievements, I think it's also the hardest thing I've ever done personally. I mean, I really struggled. I was like, how do I write a book about the situation, this thing that people aren't looking for books about because they're not seeing their situations and they're certainly not seeing their situations as a locus of their agency. I think the idea, though, is so deep. I mean, I'm not the first thinker to say that the situation is powerful. As you know, I'm a big fan of the philosopher Michel de Montaigne. I won't try to use my high school French and pronounce the name with like whatever, South Jersey French accent, but Michel de Montaigne, about a half century ago, being like landed gentry, wrote essays. I mean, he invented the form of the essay, like to try in French, to essay, like to try to work out a…

Russ Roberts

well, we had that episode with Anna Mastriani recently where he said incentives are for losers. So let's say you go to,

Angela Duckworth

wait, what did he, yeah, what did he mean by that? So what

Russ Roberts

he meant was that, well, let me give you this example that works for us. I go to a bar. I don't want to drink too much, either because I have to drive or I don't think it's healthy for me or I don't like my behavior once I've had a few too many drinks. But it's happy hour. So the drinks are…

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