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JD Jared Diamond On Conversations with Coleman

“We expect everybody to be equal to John Wooden, and that's impossible. So we fired coach after coach, although their winning records have been 60 or 70%, which any university other than UCLA would have been thrilled with, with the result that UCLA is now $150 million in debt in its athletic department because I'm having to buy out all these contracts. Again, my chancellor should have read my book.”

Conversations with Coleman · Ideas & Essays · October 2026

“We expect everybody to be equal to John Wooden, and that's impossible. So we fired coach after coach, although their winning records have been 60 or 70%, which any university other than UCLA would have been thrilled with, with the result that UCLA is now $150 million in debt in its athletic department because I'm having to buy out all these contracts. Again, my chancellor should have read my book.” — Jared Diamond, Conversations with Coleman

Diamond's new book asks how much leaders really matter. Hughes offered NBA coaching as a natural experiment, and Diamond estimates a coach is about 30% of the explanation. He then turns to his own university's habit of firing basketball coaches. The debt figure is his own claim.

Transcript

Conversations with Coleman Around 40:53 into the episode
Jared Diamond

No, I have not looked at that case, and I would defer to your opinion on it.

Coleman Hughes

…then why did it still work the second year when he was gone for half of the season? Maybe it's the case that like a sports coach can like set the strategy and set it and forget it and can leave the room and his impact is still felt. In any case, it's a really rich example for you to look at.

Jared Diamond

It's a great example. My first thought is that coaches make a difference, but they're not 100% of the explanation. They're 30% of the explanation. And so in your case, in that first half of the year, maybe something else happened. A coach is not omnipotent, but good coaches like John Wooden. So John Wooden didn't do well for the first 14 years, and then he did well thereafter. Interestingly, my university, UCLA, we fired all of our basketball coaches since John Wooden, although their winning records have been 60 or 70%, which with which any university other than UCLA would have been thrilled. But we expect everybody to be equal to John Wooden, and that's impossible. So we fired coach after coach with the result that UCLA is now $150 million of debt in its athletic department because I'm having to buy out all these contracts. Again, my chancellor should have read my book.

Coleman Hughes

All right. Thank you so much, Jared Diamond. Everyone should go purchase the book. It's Profits, Profits, Coaches, and Kings. Thank you so much, Jared.

Speaker 1

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Coleman Hughes

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Speaker names from our own diarization · position estimated from where the line sits in the episode

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