“The line between crime and hustle is thinner than people think in the startup world.”

The means justified the ends.

Yes, that's how I think she told herself that story. It

Yeah. And she told herself that what she was doing was hustle and that's what it was going to take to build this generational company and not fraud.

I'm with you on that. I think that she knew what was going on, meaning she wasn't out of the loop. It wasn't being done behind her back by other people. She knew what was going on and was complicit in it. She didn't see it as fraud or illegal or harming anybody. She saw it as being determined…

But it was fraud. She just didn't think of it in that context. Correct. In my opinion.