“Apple doesn't like to be embarrassed. Apple doesn't like to be wrong-footed. … Those rare moments where you see Apple sweat are great because they don't want to let you see them sweat. They don't want to show their effort in that way. They want to just kind of put down a finished product and say, look at the magic.”

…and being like, yes, this is it. We thought of everything. And you make your first folding phone. And guess what? You can't do that. You just, you got to be, I mean, they may act like it, but seriously, the iPhone duo is very much a all right, let's try this. And I love, I find, I find that very entertaining as somebody who covers Apple because you get, I've said it on this podcast many times. Those rare moments where you see Apple sweat are great because they don't want to let you see them sweat. They don't want to show their effort in that way. They want to just kind of put down a finished product and say, look at the magic. And yet it's so instructive and informative and fascinating to see them have to work hard and break a sweat and try to figure it out because usually that happens all behind the scenes. And then what they give us is just the end result. And the iPhone duo just feels to me very much like a kind of product that is still in the works and still they're still figuring it out. And we're all going to…