David Roberts
Writer of the Substack Sparks From Culture; zealous fan of my family, my Shih Tzu, all things Substack, NYC (lifelong resident); forty year career in finance, n...
“A lot of people come into this with the sort of naive idea that businesses are these sort of ruthless, rational, self-interest maximizers. And ... once you butt your heads against them long enough, you really get a sense that these are just people and they're old and they're set in their ways and they're watching Fox News just like everybody else. They are not in some back room with spreadsheets.”
Volts · Climate & Energy · October 2026
Roberts has covered climate and energy politics for years and is on stage with Leah Stokes at an event for her book. They have been talking about utilities and fossil fuel companies resisting electrification. This is what he says the long fight taught him about how those companies actually make decisions.
Transcript
I know.
And they're starting to be pretty darn unpopular, those folks. So that's going to complicate things. But yeah, we need to build a lot of clean electricity and we need to run all our machines with it. That is the takeaway. And, you know, there is a real tension now about like one thing I'm very worried about because I'm doing all this work on industrial electrification. And for example, let's get a milk pasteurization plant to run on a heat pump. Well, you might need to increase your interconnection and bring more power into that plant because you're going to use that on electricity rather than burning gas on site. And that could be a pretty large load, right? And we're having all these conversations around large load tariffs for data centers that kind of ignore the whole electrification, we need to have cheaper power for good things part of the equation. So yeah, I think we really have to get clear that electricity is a really important asset and lifeblood of our society and it needs to be used for electrification because, you know, that is the number one North Star of what we have to do to deal with climate change.
And I also feel like another thing that fighting this fight over many, many years really teaches you is that I think a lot of people come into this with the sort of naive idea that businesses are these sort of ruthless, rational, self-interest maximizers. And you really, once you butt your heads against them long enough, you really get a sense that these are just people and they're old and they're set in their ways and they're watching Fox News just like everybody else. Like they are not in some back room with spreadsheets. They're just like clueless dummies like everybody else. Speaking of clueless dummies. Hey there, everybody. Don't worry. I'm not going to tell you about a new mattress or push a credit card on you. This isn't an ad. There are no ads on Volts. It is supported entirely by listeners like you. If you'll indulge me for a second, I'd like to ask for your support. I started Volts because we're all surrounded by depressing news about climate change and misinformation about clean energy. And it's never been more important to share the stories of the real people on the ground doing the real work of transition and all the ingenuity, courage, public spirit they are bringing to it. People are hungry to hear these stories, to learn from and find inspiration in them. I've heard from people who change majors or careers after hearing episodes of Volts. People using it in classrooms, community groups, even state legislators who have passed bills inspired by specific episodes. Sharing these stories matters. It makes a difference. If you have found value in it and want to help me continue doing it, I hope you will join the community of paid subscribers at volts.wtf. It's about the cost of a cup of coffee a month. If you don't like subscriptions, you can make a one-time contribution, leave a review on Apple or Spotify, or just tell a friend about Volts. I am grateful for any and all support. If you're already a paid subscriber, thank you. And now, back to the show. Speaking of clueless dummies,
I know where this is going.
The reason your beloved clean electricity performance program ultimately did not make it into the bill, it had 49 out of 50%. 50 votes, and the 50th vote was one Joe Manchin of West Virginia. Let's talk about him for a minute. I mean, just to begin with, just narrowly, on the electricity program, he didn't like it. And even in the book, you admit that, like, it's really hard to grasp onto why. Like, he would say one thing about it, and then he would say another thing about it. He would say things about it that were so patently, obviously wrong that you would have to think: is he lying on purpose? Is he super dumb? Is he just repeating the last thing the last lobbyist in his office told him? Like, for instance, he said, I don't want to pay utilities to do what they're doing anyway.
Yeah.
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