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PM Patrick McKenzie Patrick McKenzie Spent six years at Stripe working on payments infrastructure before moving to an advisory role there, after founding several small software companies over the p...

“Organized crime does not outscale capitalism. The threat is when it gets to piggyback illegitimately on capitalism.”

Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11) · Startups & Venture · September 2026

“Organized crime does not outscale capitalism. The threat is when it gets to piggyback illegitimately on capitalism.” — Patrick McKenzie, Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11)

Context

McKenzie is reading his own essay on the wallets business, and had just deflated the long-running media story about elaborate fake e-commerce sites built to harvest card numbers. His point is that the real volume of stolen card data comes from breaches at companies that were legitimately handed millions of cards in the course of business. It sets up why PayPal's original pitch — never show the seller your card number at all — was worth something.

Transcript

Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie (patio11) Around 00:00 into the episode
Patrick McKenzie

…or afterwards, but this would not be the first or last time the media convinced itself of an untruth and then was unable to find an industry insider to leak them a SQL query dispelling their fantasies. The largest source of poor bank credit card information is scaled breaches of card issuers or companies that were legitimately presented hundreds of thousands or millions of card in commerce. Organized crime does not outscale capitalism. The threat is when it gets to piggyback illegitimately on capitalism. And so that was the initial value proposition of PayPal. Convey money from your own payment instruments to others on the internet, by volume, mostly eBay auction sellers, without needing to show those potential devious hackers your actual credit card number. That way, your exposure was upper bounded at the single transaction in progress, and hopefully PayPal or your bank would intervene if…

Erik Torenberg

I think the acknowledgement of an ad read sounds cooler in Japanese.

Patrick McKenzie

Cool, right? So, picture this. You've finally recruited that engineer you've been eyeing for months. The interview feedback was unanimous, totally cracked. Their salary and equity grant were pricey, but worth it. You can't wait to get them to work. On filing expense reports? No, of course. You've…

Erik Torenberg

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Complex Systems. If you have comments, drop me an email or hit me up at Patty11 on Twitter. Ratings and reviews are the lifeblood of new podcasts for SEO reasons, and also because they let me know what you like.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

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