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Cliff Sosin

Things Cliff Says on Podcasts

Where to Find Them

Cliff Sosin has been a guest on Invest Like the Best (Patrick O'Shaughnessy) (2 times) and Business Breakdowns .

Recently: “Cliff Sosin - Owning the Complements to Intelligence - [Invest Like the Best, EP.497]” on Invest Like the Best (Patrick O'Shaughnessy) (October 2026); “Cliff Sosin - Investing in Carvana - [Invest Like the Best, EP.421]” on Invest Like the Best (Patrick O'Shaughnessy) (April 2025); “Cardlytics: The Ad Platform with Purchasing Power - [Business Breakdowns, EP. 17]” on Business Breakdowns (July 2021).

What They Said

“Look, you're really smart. So you must understand. Being smart has limits. … If that experiment requires breeding mice and mice need a year to grow up and die, that experiment is going to take time. And it might be a great experiment. You might learn a lot and that's great. Still going to take time. And the lab's only so big.” — Cliff Sosin, Invest Like the Best (Patrick O'Shaughnessy)

Patrick O'Shaughnessy asked about startups building automated, AI-run labs. Sosin calls them a great idea but says the physical world sets speed limits that no amount of intelligence removes; he doesn't expect a model to suddenly reveal a world we couldn't comprehend.

Invest Like the Best (Patrick O'Shaughnessy) · 2026-10-27 Permalink → Listen →
Invest Like the Best (Patrick O'Shaughnessy) Around 09:25 into the episode
Cliff Sosin

…server. And so I actually don't know what model I'm using anymore. I used to know this model is better, this one's worse. I no longer know. All of this is being optimized on the back end for me. And all I know is that stuff is getting built and it's not using up my subscriptions. And so we're good.

Patrick O'Shaughnessy

…what you think about, which is effectively real-world experimentation companies that create a loop that's automatic. There's this happening in robotics. There's this happening in several places in biolabs and automated wet labs, automated testing labs. Any commentary on that kind of company?

Cliff Sosin

…So you must understand. Being smart has limits. Being smart has limits. And so the ability to just think your way to solutions is limited. And so if you're going to build an automatic biology testing laboratory and you're going to connect it to a computer and the computer is going to come up with an idea and then it's going to run an experiment and it's going to iterate, that's awesome. But if that experiment requires breeding mice and mice need a year to grow up and die, that experiment is going to take time. And it might be a great experiment. You might learn a lot and that's great. Still going to take time. And the lab's only so big. And so you might have 5,000 great ideas. You're going to pick 20 and the model may be better. Your odds of that experiment marketing might even be 1%. Turns out that might be 10 times better than the average researcher. And that's amazing. It's still 1%. None of this is to be pessimistic. This is super amazing. Discovering all the things that we should know because it's already in our corpus…

Patrick O'Shaughnessy

It seems like the market has been, especially in private markets and the leading edge of investors thinking about AI, very focused on investing in supply-related stuff. Like how are we going to build and serve all the intelligence versus what I'll call demand-related stuff? Someone watching their…

Cliff Sosin

Super hard. I've joked, I've been willfully ignorant about them and probably I'm sort of worse off for it. But there's this big build out. And then you're trying to forecast inference demand. I can't forecast supply or demand within several orders of magnitude. This idea of how much more inference…

Patrick O'Shaughnessy

Maybe this is a time to talk about capital cycles or something. It sure does seem like the smartest people in the world and many or most of the best entrepreneurs in the world are heavily personally invested in this supply build out thing. If you watch SpaceX's Investor Day yesterday, this is…

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“I found it helpful to assume everyone has really great intelligence and ask what's left. The pushback is often some version of, but you don't understand how hard this is, and you don't understand how complicated this is. … And my hand-wavy and approximately right response is, okay, sure, but that's all just intelligence. And to follow this logic all the way through to the end is if intelligence becomes cheap and ubiquitous, what you want to own are the complements to intelligence.” — Cliff Sosin, Invest Like the Best (Patrick O'Shaughnessy)

The investor laid out the thesis of the episode: if everyone has a team of 200-IQ agents in their pocket, what's left to own? His list of complements is data, attention, emotional attachment, physical proximity, scale and, more cynically, regulatory capture. Businesses that depend on customer lethargy are the ones he expects to suffer.

Invest Like the Best (Patrick O'Shaughnessy) · 2026-10-27 Permalink → Listen →
Invest Like the Best (Patrick O'Shaughnessy) Around 03:37 into the episode
Cliff Sosin

…There are many, many circumstances where simulation is super useful for approximations. And in those circumstances, you can use intelligence to solve them. But there are many more where it doesn't work. And so intelligence is limited in that fundamental unknowableness, I guess, about the universe.

Patrick O'Shaughnessy

So back to this notion of it's just intelligence. What does that mean about where you think we're going from a more practical standpoint?

Cliff Sosin

…of intelligence. And so as I've been thinking about companies and investments, I found it helpful to assume everyone has really great intelligence and ask what's left. The pushback is often some version of, but you don't understand how hard this is, and you don't understand how complicated this is, and you don't understand how many smart people have had to think for so long about this. And my hand-wavy and approximately right response is, okay, sure, but that's all just intelligence. And to follow this logic all the way through to the end is if intelligence becomes cheap and ubiquitous, what you want to own are the complements to intelligence. And so the complements to intelligence are their data, attention, love, affection, whatever sort of emotional attachment you want. It's physical proximity, it's scale. It's a little cynical, but if it's regulatory capture, it's these sorts of things where for some businesses, what happens is their finite ability to deploy intelligence, be it economics, just the cost of it, they're only a certain…

Patrick O'Shaughnessy

Maybe pick Meta or something as the perfect example of a company that I think you believe owns perfect complements to ubiquitous cheap intelligence, just to bring the example to life.

Cliff Sosin

I'm actually going to set aside for a moment Muse and agents and that whole thing and focus on the business. And the core business at Meta is personalized TV. Personalized TV. It used to be social media, but now it's personalized TV. And it turns out that people really like watching Instagram or…

Patrick O'Shaughnessy

I want to talk about the labs. So back to the original point, I think lots of great investors would say intelligence, specifically frontier intelligence, is not a commodity. Historically, the conversation has been about the gap in intelligence between closed source and open source. Increasingly…

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

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