Naveen Rao

Things Naveen Says on Podcasts

Where to Find Them

Naveen Rao writes AI + a16z and writes a16z Podcast . They have also been a guest on This Week in Startups (2 times) , The TWIML AI Podcast (2 times) , Mixture of Experts , Newcomer Pod , Generative Now | AI Builders on Creating the Future , The AI Podcast (NVIDIA) and The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch .

Recently: “20VC: Why Robotics Will be 100x Bigger than Coding Agents | Inference Will Be a $10TRN Market: What No One Sees | Why Software Investors are F***** Today with Naveen Rao, Unconventional” on The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch (October 2026); “The 80-Year Bet: Why Naveen Rao Is Rebuilding the Computer from Scratch” on a16z Podcast (December 2025); “The 80-Year Bet: Why Naveen Rao Is Rebuilding the Computer from Scratch” on a16z Podcast (December 2025); “REPLAY: Scoping the Enterprise LLM Market” on AI + a16z (November 2024); “REPLAY: Scoping the Enterprise LLM Market” on AI + a16z (November 2024); “Scaling AI, agent-led future, and race to AGI” on Mixture of Experts (November 2024).

What They Said

“I think commoditization doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. It just means that margin, yeah, falls quite a lot, but it also means that the market is very big. So you could argue that tomatoes are commoditized, but we still eat them.” — Naveen Rao, The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch

Asked what happens if AI models become commodities, Rao says six-month-old open models are already good enough for many jobs. He expects the margin to sit with hardware rather than model companies, noting that Nvidia takes the lion's share today.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch · 2026-10-24 Permalink → Listen →
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch Around 35:59 into the episode
Naveen Rao

…they're pretty useful, right? Something that's six months old is still pretty darn good. So I would argue that's that's a hallmark of commoditization, right? The frontier is not the only thing that matters. For certain problems, it is, but in six months, that frontier will be in the open models. So

Harry Stebbings

then help me out. What happens if the delivery mechanism or the output of all the infrastructure is then commoditized? Well,

Naveen Rao

I think commoditization doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. It just means that margin, yeah, falls quite a lot, but it also means that the market is very big. So you could argue that tomatoes are commoditized, but we still eat them. We still need them, you know? So we will have. A huge market for intelligence and the market will continue to grow, but the margins may not be huge. I actually don't think the model companies will be the ones who own the margin of the whole stack. It's not even true today. Like NVIDIA owns the margin of the stack today, right? I would say they're probably the one who take the lion's share of the margin.

Harry Stebbings

A lot of people say to me the cost of inference will actually go massively down over the next few years. And we'll see the commoditization potentially of the inference market. Would you agree with that or not? Not agree with that.

Naveen Rao

Well, let's break it down. What does commoditization of the inference market mean? What that means is that the operator who's running inference, I assume. Yeah.

Harry Stebbings

Yeah, absolutely. Your fireworks, your modal, your base tans, and the services that they provide. Because

Speaker names from our own diarization · position estimated from where the line sits in the episode
“The inference market is going to be a $10 trillion market within 10 years. … If we knock off a zero, one order magnitude of efficiency on delivery of a token, that effectively 10x's the market in some ways. … So I actually think robotics is going to be 100 times larger than agentic coding.” — Naveen Rao, The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch

Rao argues that each big drop in the cost of producing a token opens up far more uses, the Jevons paradox applied to AI. He says that is why tech markets that once looked bounded now look like they run to trillions of dollars.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch · 2026-10-24 Permalink → Listen →
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch Around 48:19 into the episode
Naveen Rao

You know, I think we're going to be in this weird world where we live in exponential development cycles. It's really hard to apply our old models. Something that looks like so far away today with an exponential curve ends up being much faster than you thought.

Harry Stebbings

And like TAMs, you know, a market size is I think the inference market. What do I know now that I wish I'd known 24 months ago? That the inference market was just like unbounded. It's

Naveen Rao

…And the inference market is going to be a $10 trillion market within 10 years. So this is insane to think about, right? And to your point, we're moving some of that labor market and part of the value generation stack to technology. So that's where we're getting these giant TAMs. So the way I look at like unconventional, the reason that I think it's a, it's a fantastic market to be in is that if we knock off a zero, one order magnitude of efficiency on delivery of a token, that effectively 10x's the market in some ways. So something was a trillion dollar market, now all of a sudden you have way more applicability. The base of potential uses just increases more than 10x. This is Jevin's paradox. So I think we're in this place where we can build these exponentials and it just unlocks massive value and markets. So I actually think robotics is going to be 100 times larger than agentic coding.

Harry Stebbings

Well, well, that is slightly disagreeing with me, Naveen. Can we just like, before we do a quick five, can we just unpack that? Because I don't want to be completely moronic. Why do you say that?

Naveen Rao

I think we're still scratching the surface of how to see the output of intelligence. So the physical world is something we've just not been in at all for intelligence. Like I would argue robotics to date, like industrial robotics, are not really intelligent. They're rote. We're imbuing them with…

Harry Stebbings

Can I be blunt? Where specifically then do you invest in robotics? In the model companies that power them, the data companies that power the model companies, the consumer application layer, where? I

Speaker names from our own diarization · position estimated from where the line sits in the episode
“No. I would say if you're a pure software investor, you're kind of fucked, honestly. And I'll say that pretty confidently because SaaS, I don't think, is going to be where you gain margin anymore. … I just don't see software being a huge market in 20 years.” — Naveen Rao, The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch

Harry Stebbings asked whether today's investors are equipped to back hardware companies. Rao argues that SaaS boomed because cloud made software frictionless to launch, and that value is now shifting to the intelligence layer and the hardware underneath it.

The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch · 2026-10-24 Permalink → Listen →
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch Around 39:04 into the episode
Naveen Rao

…have an advantage because you can still squeeze more juice out of like, hey, I convert energy to intelligence more efficiently. We have more, well, a lot more juice to squeeze there versus the infrastructure layer, in my view. I actually think the hardware is the place to be over the next 10 years.

Harry Stebbings

Dude, it's quite fucking hard doing hardware investing. It's a very different mindset. Is this generation of investors equipped to be hardware investors?

Naveen Rao

No. I would say if you're a pure software investor, you're kind of fucked, honestly. And I'll say that pretty confidently because SaaS, I don't think, is going to be where you gain margin anymore. And we had this sugar high for the, since what, 2011, 2010 timeframe till now of, you know, I can very quickly spend something up on an AWS cloud service, test the market quickly, try things out, and then go after $100 million or $200 million market. SaaS was like massive fragmentation of the market because the delivery mechanism became very easy and frictionless. Now we're in this place where applications start to become more about the intelligence layer. And I just don't see software being a huge market in 20 years.

Harry Stebbings

Do you not just think SaaS becomes Lagora? And what I mean by that is like, is Lagora SaaS? Well, kind of, yeah, enterprise SaaS, but kind of not. No. So does like the semantics not just change? I don't think anyone really is like starting fresh being like, oh, we're a SaaS company.

Naveen Rao

Right. So exactly. I think you're right. So I was taking the classic definition of SaaS, I suppose. But I think companies where you deliver an outcome and you do so through a combination of software and services, absolutely. You know, we're seeing that in several companies. I mean, I invest pretty…

Harry Stebbings

We see it, you know, I call it word wank, which is where like, you know, VC has come up with a coin theory of the world. And it's like, you know, the trillion dollar services thing. You know, I think Sequoia did a brilliant piece on. And I love Julian who did it. It's very good. But like, are we…

Speaker names from our own diarization · position estimated from where the line sits in the episode

Collections They Appear In