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Steven Kotler

Things Steven Says on Podcasts

Where to Find Them

Steven Kotler hosts Flow Radio . They have also been a guest on Young and Profiting with Hala Taha (Entrepreneurship, Sales, Marketing) (9 times) , Moonshots with Peter Diamandis (6 times) , The Game Changing Attorney Podcast with Michael Mogill (2 times) , The Brian Buffini Show (2 times) , The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk , Into the Impossible With Brian Keating , The Knowledge Project (Shane Parrish) , The Investor's Podcast (We Study Billionaires) - The Investor’s Podcast Network , Financial Sense Newshour , Giants Shoulder , Decoder with Nilay Patel , The Home Service Expert Podcast and Podcasting Made Simple .

Recently: “The Science of Doing Your Best Work” on The Knowledge Project (Shane Parrish) (October 2026); “The Neuroscience of Flow, Reconsidered: The Brain Has No Switch” on Flow Radio (September 2026); “The Body Does Not Keep the Score” on Flow Radio (August 2026); “Steven Kotler: The Psychology of Aging Well and Why Your Best Years May Still Be Ahead of You | Health and Wellness | YAPClassic” on Young and Profiting with Hala Taha (Entrepreneurship, Sales, Marketing) (June 2026); “Why AGI Is Close but Not Here Yet | Ray Kurzweil | EP #261” on Moonshots with Peter Diamandis (June 2026); “Steven Kotler on His New Book: We Are as Gods” on Financial Sense Newshour (May 2026).

What They Said

“If you want to think better, you have to start by reading more. … People ask me how I got my career, how I did anything, and I will flat out tell you I outread the motherfuckers. I realized very early on I wasn't the brightest guy, but I was willing to read three or four or five times the amount as anybody else was willing to read.” — Steven Kotler, The Knowledge Project (Shane Parrish)

Asked whether people can be taught to think better, Kotler said he now spends most of his reading time on textbooks, because almost nobody else reads them. He then worked out the return on reading a book: six or seven hours of your time for years of the author's research.

The Knowledge Project (Shane Parrish) · 2026-10-27 Permalink → Listen →
The Knowledge Project (Shane Parrish) Around 40:47 into the episode
Speaker 4

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Shane Parrish

Can you teach people to think better?

Steven Kotler

If you want to think better, you have to start by reading more. Like the, you want to think better, read more. First, first thing. People ask me how I got my career, how I did anything, and I will flat out tell you I outread the motherfuckers. I just, I realized very early on, I wasn't the brightest guy. I wasn't, you know, the best at all that stuff, but I was willing to read three or four or five times the amount as anybody else was willing to read. So I…

Shane Parrish

Two ideas that dovetail into this that I want to hear you maybe respond to. One is: I have a concept called the learning loop. And it's you have an experience, you take that experience, you compress it. So you reflect on it. So you have an experience, you reflect on it, you create a compression…

Steven Kotler

One, I think it's a medium is the message kind of thing. So I think you will get with this kind of thing better stories, better the human side. I like there's a lot of advantages because those things even get compressed in books for a lot of reasons. So I think the podcast is really, there's…

Shane Parrish

but this is why you're the perfect person to talk to with your journal. Like, how do you pull out the best information from people?

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“I'm picking a fight here that I don't really need to pick, but it bugs the shit out of me. I'm like, deep work is another word for flow, brother. Like, I'm sorry, you've coined a new term. … You've just rebranded something else and you've just made it harder for people who are trying to study this and get smarter about it.” — Steven Kotler, The Knowledge Project (Shane Parrish)

Shane Parrish raised Cal Newport's argument that flow isn't the best state for learning, because learning needs discomfort. Kotler agreed that struggle matters, but said it's simply the first phase of the flow cycle, and complained that new labels for the same state have long slowed down the research.

The Knowledge Project (Shane Parrish) · 2026-10-27 Permalink → Listen →
The Knowledge Project (Shane Parrish) Around 32:47 into the episode
Steven Kotler

…have to sort of do that. Or, you know, I see this with writers. And it's amazing because I've like, I see really smart people who are amazing contributors to this world. And I can't tell you how much time they're, you know, like flushing down a toilet because they want to argue with their critics.

Shane Parrish

One thing we haven't talked about with flow is its relationship to learning. So I know Cal Newport argues that flow isn't the optimal learning state because we need a lot of discomfort. I'm curious, what's your reaction to that?

Steven Kotler

One of my pet peeves is people who coin a whole bunch of new language for themselves. One of the reasons flow research was so damn hard, so damn hard, the entire altered state space is everybody wanted to coin a new name, right? Maslow called it peak experiences. Chick sent me high was flow. Then Phil Jackson, the zone. And so I look at Cal, and I think, and I'm picking a fight here that I don't really need to pick a fight, but like it bugs the shit out of me. I'm like, deep work is another word for flow, brother. Like, I'm sorry, you've coined a new term. When he says, well, no, you're going to need a lot of struggle for flow. Well, that's because there's a flow cycle. The front end of a flow state is what is known as struggle. It's a loading phase. Flow is unconscious when we can perform tasks without much conscious interference. To perform something unconsciously, we first have to learn it consciously. Right. And so that's why there's a four, the first front end of the flow state is struggle, right? It's all conscious. It's all thinking. And Cal is exactly correct. And this is Colleen Seifert sort of…

Shane Parrish

want to come back to something. Maybe double-click on pattern recognition and anticipation, the relationship between those two things.

Steven Kotler

The brain fundamentally is a prediction engine, right? What the brain is doing at every moment of every day is it's trying to predict what is about to happen, right? And what it wants to do is lower uncertainty, wants to minimize uncertainty, and it wants to know exactly how much energy. Right.…

Shane Parrish

Let me tell you about the best new product that I've used in the past five years. It's the Matic Vacuum. This thing vacuums, it mops, Matic does everything. Other robots bump into things, but the Matic

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

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