Lyman Stone

Things Lyman Says on Podcasts

Demographer and director of the Pronatalism Initiative at the Institute for Family Studies, writing on fertility decline, birth rates and the cost of raising children. Writes the Substack newsletter Lyman Stone. Appears as a guest on Razib Khan's Unsupervised Learning, Money & Macro Talks, Reasonably Optimistic and the Cato Podcast.

Where to Find Them

Lyman Stone writes Lyman Stone , writes Razib Khan's Unsupervised Learning and writes After Babel . They have also been a guest on Money & Macro Talks , Reasonably Optimistic , Cato Podcast and Freakonomics Radio .

Recently: “695. Can the U.S. Close Its Fertility Gap?” on Freakonomics Radio (November 2026); “What Census Was Luke Talking About?” on Lyman Stone (October 2026); “Babies Are Not For Cowards” on Lyman Stone (October 2026); “Are 3-Child Families A Luxury Good?” on Lyman Stone (October 2026); “India Wakes Up While Egypt Goes Down” on Lyman Stone (October 2026); “The Biblical Censuses Are Correct Demographic Records” on Lyman Stone (September 2026).

What They Said

Dubner asked whether not having the children you wanted really leaves people unhappier later in life. Stone points to long-running surveys and outcomes after failed IVF, and argues the real cost of low fertility is emotional, not fiscal.

Freakonomics Radio · 2026-11-13 Permalink → Listen →
Freakonomics Radio Around 18:00 into the episode
Lyman Stone

…have. And they spend the last 40 years of their life, because life expectancy is going up, basically miserable and unattached from the next generation, feeling like they don't care about what's coming next and that they only really need society to live long enough to pay for their Social Security.

Stephen Dubner

Do you really feel that not having your own children will make you miserable and unattached from the next generation?

Lyman Stone

…antipsychotics or something. Whereas people with failed or long-delayed IVF success have these huge increases in the use of mental health services and prescriptions. That tells us that not having kids you want to have makes you quite sad. It's quite unfortunate. It usually is a story of miscarriage, infertility, disappointment, broken relationships, things like that. And all of that, to me, says the real burden of low fertility in the long run is not a budget math problem. It's a heart math problem.

Stephen Dubner

Coming up after the break, the budget math matters too. I'm Stephen Dubner. This is Freakonomics Radio. We'll be right back. Freakonomics Radio is sponsored by Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right with premium wireless for $15 a month. Choose from three, six…

Melissa Kearney

A lot of the exploration I've done has basically led me to rule out potential explanations.

Stephen Dubner

That, again, is the economist Melissa Kearney.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

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