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Oleksandr Tolokonnikov

Things Oleksandr Says on Podcasts

Where to Find Them

Oleksandr Tolokonnikov has been a guest on Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change .

Recently: “How Ukraine Can Survive Another Brutal Winter | Ukraine Deep Dive 01” on Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change (October 2026).

What They Said

“I know that European countries are continuing to produce tanks, and they're spending huge amounts of money on this kind of equipment, where each tank costs more than a million Euros but can be destroyed by a 200-euro drone.” — Oleksandr Tolokonnikov, Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

A Kherson regional official, speaking through translation, answering what he would tell the politicians and investors in Michael Liebreich's audience. He calls it a new, technological kind of war that almost nobody is prepared for.

Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change · 2026-10-12 Permalink → Listen →
Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change Around 10:25 into the episode
Speaker 3

…as soon as we bring them to Kherson, the strikes begin. Russian drones are constantly monitoring us. They can see any movement in the city. That's precisely where we would like to install them, but it's very hard to do so. So we're constantly urging people to leave, at least for the harsh winter.

Michael Liebreich

I have in my audience politicians, investors, project developers, leaders of civic society. What would you say to them? What would you like them to do in this very difficult situation? I would hope that

Speaker 3

my words make them take the threat of modern warfare more seriously. It's a new type of war, and the risks that it poses to any country around the world are enormous. This is a technological war. You could call it Star Wars. And I believe almost nobody is prepared for it. I know that European countries are continuing to produce tanks, and they're spending huge amounts of money on this kind of equipment, where each tank costs more than a million Euros but can be destroyed by a 200-euro drone. In Kherson, we were really not prepared for this type of warfare. We were not prepared for these attacks. But if we continue to share these lessons in the book with the countries that are helping us, hopefully they will be able to prepare themselves. If we'd had this knowledge before the war, I believe we would have saved thousands of lives.

Michael Liebreich

So, your answer to my question was a warning. Is there anything, or if there was one thing that could be done to improve or to help Kherson, to your city, what would that one thing be?

Speaker 2

Why

Speaker 3

did I give that answer? Because I don't think we should have to ask anyone for anything. Of course, we need things like new electrical equipment, transformers, transformer oil, and a lot of other equipment for our electricity and water supply systems. We need generators and fuel. These are all…

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