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Tyler Schultz

Things Tyler Says on Podcasts

“We were watching the demonstration and she turned to the woman who was running the demo and she just said, Do you think this is cool? And the woman shrugged her shoulders and said, I'll let you decide for yourself and walked away. And in that moment, I realized that there was an open secret at this company that the technology did not exist.” — Tyler Schultz, Search Engine “They gave her so much power. They gave her so much money. They gave her so much credibility, and they did not do their diligence. And on paper, the people who gave her $100 million checks are the victims. I think they are part of the problem.” — Tyler Schultz, Search Engine “When a software product fails, the user sees that it failed… It's not like Apple has backup fake information statically held on the iPhone that it starts throwing at you so that you think that it worked when it didn't… But with a medical diagnostic test, the user has no idea if the result they got is accurate or not. There's no way that the user has the ability to hold the company accountable.” — Tyler Schultz, Search Engine

Where to Find Them

Tyler Schultz has been a guest on Search Engine .

Recently: “What it’s like when Elizabeth Holmes decides to destroy your life” on Search Engine (October 2026).

What They Said

“We were watching the demonstration and she turned to the woman who was running the demo and she just said, Do you think this is cool? And the woman shrugged her shoulders and said, I'll let you decide for yourself and walked away. And in that moment, I realized that there was an open secret at this company that the technology did not exist.” — Tyler Schultz, Search Engine

Schultz, then 22, describes his first look inside the Theranos device, alongside his manager, a molecular biologist. What they saw was a pipette on a robotic arm that could run one test at a time and relied on other lab equipment.

Search Engine · 2026-10-29 Permalink → Listen →
Search Engine Around 16:21 into the episode
Tyler Schultz

I was 22.

PJ Vogt

And so what happens when you get a chance to finally see the device?

Tyler Schultz

So as part of our onboarding into this validation lab, we get to see the device and we get to see what they called the open reader, which was the device that didn't have the shell on it. So you could see exactly what was inside and exactly what it was doing. And since we were moved over together, the first time that I was seeing this was the first time that my manager was seeing this. And she had worked there for several years. She has a PhD in postdoc and molecular biology. And I so vividly remember this moment. We were watching the demonstration and she turned to the woman who was running the demo and she just said, Do you think this is cool? And the woman shrugged her shoulders and said, I'll let you decide for yourself and walked away. And in that moment, I realized that there was an open secret at this company that the technology did not exist because what we saw was an eight-channel pipette on a robotic arm. It was not a standalone platform. It could only test for one thing at a time. It could only run one type of test. And it was poorly engineered. So it couldn't even run that one test very well. But it relied on…

PJ Vogt

So if you've seen the film, there's this very key scene where Elizabeth Holmes actually breaks out what she says is the Theranos device. Like she pulls it out of storage and presents it on her kitchen table. She's showing it to Nathan Fielder, who then asks Elizabeth to defend public statements…

Speaker 1

But from what I know, you couldn't do every test on a single device. That's the whole problem. That's why you're going to prison, right? No, that was our invention. And in the case I talked about, the fact that we had invented a device that could do any test are technologies.

PJ Vogt

Elizabeth Holmes on to explain to a visibly confused Nathan that the device on the table can run all these tests someday in the future, in theory. Once the chemistry to perform all these tests exists.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“They gave her so much power. They gave her so much money. They gave her so much credibility, and they did not do their diligence. And on paper, the people who gave her $100 million checks are the victims. I think they are part of the problem.” — Tyler Schultz, Search Engine

PJ Vogt suggested that the powerful older men on Theranos's board and cap table were simply suckered by Elizabeth Holmes. Schultz agrees they were the mark, but argues their lack of diligence is what made the fraud possible, with each big name vouching for the next.

Search Engine · 2026-10-29 Permalink → Listen →
Search Engine Around 58:18 into the episode
Speaker 4

It's also

PJ Vogt

…men have made tons of social. Mistakes and then tons of social damage in recent and past history in America. This is one story where, like, there were people who should have known better or should have figured stuff out sooner, but I think old white men were kind of suckered in this one story. Oh,

Tyler Schultz

yeah, they were the mark. Yeah, they were the mark for Elizabeth. But I also think that they actually, I think, are responsible. They gave her so much power. They gave her so much money. They gave her so much credibility, and they did not do their diligence. And, you know, on paper, the people who gave her $100 million checks are the victims. I think they are part of the problem. Honestly, that's my take. And this happens all the time in investing. They were pointing at other people who they felt were the person who knew what was going on. Rupert Murdoch points at Larry Ellison. He's a genius. Larry Ellison points at my grandfather and says, George Schultz is a genius. My grandfather points at Channing Robertson says, Well, he's a genius. And that's why I say that Channing Robertson was the kernel of credibility that snowballed all this.

PJ Vogt

That snowball had ultimately meant that Tyler had had that evening at his grandfather's house with the hidden lawyers. When they'd appeared, it turned out they weren't holding an NDA. They had a temporary restraining order and a notice to appear in court that Friday. For Tyler, that evening was the…

Speaker 1

It's that magical time of year when Designer Shoe Warehouse becomes your designer shoe wonderland and you become everyone's favorite gifter because you know that good things come in shoe boxes like cozy slippers, on-trend kicks, boots made for snow stomping, and party shoes that sparkle and shine.…

Tyler Schultz

Welcome back to the show. I'd called Tyler originally because I just wanted to know what he thought about the new movie. You can see everything. The truth is, the way I'd see the film is I was

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“When a software product fails, the user sees that it failed… It's not like Apple has backup fake information statically held on the iPhone that it starts throwing at you so that you think that it worked when it didn't… But with a medical diagnostic test, the user has no idea if the result they got is accurate or not. There's no way that the user has the ability to hold the company accountable.” — Tyler Schultz, Search Engine

The Theranos whistleblower responds to PJ Vogt's comparison with Steve Jobs's jerry-rigged first iPhone demo. His point is that "fake it till you make it" can't carry over to medical testing, because a patient can't tell when a result is wrong.

Search Engine · 2026-10-29 Permalink → Listen →
Search Engine Around 26:03 into the episode
Tyler Schultz

…there is like the real technology hidden behind some door somewhere. But the thing that I ended up speaking up about was we are actively hurting people with the thing we're using. And it doesn't matter if there is some amazing technology behind some locked door somewhere that I don't get to see.

PJ Vogt

…bunch of people bought iPhones that access the internet more slowly than they've been led to believe, it doesn't really matter. But you were understanding that what was happening right then meant that people were getting fake medical diagnoses and that that would just hurt people in the real world.

Tyler Schultz

Right. And to continue off of your Steve Jobs analogy or just comparing it to software in general, when a software product fails, the user sees that it failed. Like, oh, my internet is not connecting right now. This is not working. It doesn't, it's not like Apple has like backup fake information statically held on the iPhone that it starts throwing at you so that you think that it worked when it didn't. Like fake texts from your mom saying she loves you. Exactly. But with a medical diagnostic test, the user has no idea if the result they got is accurate or not. There's no way that the user has the ability to hold the company accountable.

Speaker 4

And so

PJ Vogt

what happens to you when you start trying to ring alarm bells?

Tyler Schultz

So I ended up going directly to Elizabeth because we had seen instances where people had spoken up and they were immediately fired. And sometimes there was one instance where after the employees were fired, Theranos sued those employees. So people were terrified and nobody wanted to speak up.…

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

Collections They Appear In

Tech Strategy & Big Tech