Janet Reitman

Things Janet Says on Podcasts

Janet Reitman is an longtime investigative journalist and author of the forthcoming book, "The Inheritance: An American Tragedy in Five Acts."

Where to Find Them

Janet Reitman writes SpyTalk . They have also been a guest on The Daily (NYT) (3 times) , SpyTalk (2 times) and The Daily Beans .

Recently: “They Protested ICE. Now They’ve Been Convicted of Terrorism.” on The Daily (NYT) (October 2026); “How 9/11 Changed America” on SpyTalk (October 2026); “Never Trust Alito (feat. Janet Reitman)” on The Daily Beans (October 2026); “Trump’s ‘Extrajudicial’ Killings Aren’t New” on SpyTalk (December 2025); “Russian Killers, American Plotters” on SpyTalk (April 2022); “‘I’m Part of Something That’s Really Evil’” on The Daily (NYT) (September 2021).

What They Said

“As long as you've created a permission structure to go after people that you disagree with based on your belief that their ideology is dangerous, then anybody can use that same template to go after a different group of people. So while this was used against the left, four years or five years from now, it could easily be used against the right.” — Janet Reitman, The Daily (NYT)

Barbaro asked whether a future president could use the same approach against the right or the middle. Reitman cites the prosecutors' line "bad facts make bad law": the shooting of an officer let the government charge the whole group as terrorists, and unless the ruling is overturned on appeal, it becomes a template.

The Daily (NYT) · 2026-10-27 Permalink → Listen →
The Daily (NYT) Around 44:03 into the episode
Janet Reitman

Absolutely.

Michael Barbaro

…if the president right now wants to, in a certain sense, criminalize protest that he doesn't like, which happens in this moment to be left-wing activism, who's to say that the next president won't criminalize the activism of the right or the middle. Who knows? I mean, how much is that a real risk?

Janet Reitman

…an undisputed act of violence, that allowed the government to basically say, well, see, they are terrorists. See, they are violent. Here's political violence. Let's charge them all as violent terrorists. And where that makes bad law is that if it is not somehow overturned in an appeals court, which at the moment it's very uncertain what will happen, that bad law can be applied to anybody. So as long as you've created a permission structure to go after people that you disagree with based on your belief that their ideology is dangerous, then anybody can use that same template to go after a different group of people. So while this was used against the left, four years or five years from now, it could easily be used against the right. This is the kind of case that January 6th, arguably, based on everything that occurred, could easily be called a terrorist incident. There were a million things that people did on January 6th that qualified, but they weren't charged in that matter. And they actually wanted. Walked out of prison after a very short amount of time. But if there's something similar like that happened in another…

Michael Barbaro

we have a system from the top on down, the present on down, where terrorism is in the eye of the beholder. And that is not something we've ever had. That's not a tradition we have legally in this country. Terrorism is supposed to be terrorism.

Janet Reitman

The idea that terrorism is in the eye of the beholder is the danger in declaring a war on terror. As somebody who's been reporting on it for a long time, this is why anyone who has been involved in prosecuting terrorism, in working in law enforcement, they understand that. That once you declare a…

Michael Barbaro

Well, Janet, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“A number of the activists were involved in an anarchist book group called the Emma Goldman Book Club, which was exactly what it sounds like. It was a book club. And yet, the government considered the Emma Goldman Book Club to be the recruiting ground for the Antifa cell.” — Janet Reitman, The Daily (NYT)

Reitman describing the prosecution's case at the Fort Worth trial of activists charged with material support for terrorism after a protest at an ICE facility where an officer was shot. To show political motive, prosecutors put the defendants' ideology in front of the jury: chats, guns, zines and their reading group.

The Daily (NYT) · 2026-10-27 Permalink → Listen →
The Daily (NYT) Around 29:44 into the episode
Janet Reitman

…law enforcement. The ICE facility was manned by people on contract to the federal government, so they qualified as some form of federal law enforcement, and Lieutenant Gross was coming to their aid. So, the shooting of him qualified as the attempted murder that could qualify as a terrorist act.

Michael Barbaro

So, once this prosecutor breaks all kinds of norms and files these charges in a way that the Department of Justice has long avoided, what happens once those charges actually reach the courtroom?

Janet Reitman

…and photographs of weapons. And they bring in the fact that Ben Song and a number of the other activists were members of the SRA, the Socialist Rifle Association. Some were members of the John Brown Gun Club, which is a much more militant kind of organization. And they bring in the fact that they had all these zines and flyers and books. And one of the most important parts of this case was that a number of the activists were involved in an anarchist book group called the Emma Goldman Book Club, which was exactly what it sounds like. It was a book club. And yet, the government considered the Emma Goldman Book Club to be the recruiting ground for the Antifa cell.

Michael Barbaro

So, the prosecution is connecting a lot of dots here. And they say, in our view, this is terrorism and this is Antifa. But I have the question of why, so far in our conversation and the way you've talked about this group of protesters and what motivated them, why you never mentioned the word…

Janet Reitman

A question was put to five activists who pled guilty and were cooperators and testified about Antifa. Not one of them denied that they held anti-fascist views. And in fact, some of them said, Isn't it a good thing to be anti-fascist, right? Don't we all hate fascism? None of them, however…

Michael Barbaro

isn't really an organized group.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

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