Do the everyday choices ordinary people make as consumers actually move environmental outcomes, or do they draw attention away from the levers that do?

Solomon is recounting how the Montreal Protocol got over the line: American consumers abandoned aerosol spray cans, which made CFCs uneconomic for US industry, and US market power then dragged the rest of the negotiation along. Taylor, asked where the real hurdle in the food system sits, answers finance, and says people fret about their yogurt and their recycling while the most powerful industry in the world stays invisible in everyone's supply chain. One is describing the consumer boycott that worked; the other is describing consumer attention as the thing that keeps the bigger lever out of view.

Neither has heard the other say it. We found both by reading across every show we follow — the two halves of an argument almost never land in the same week, the same collection, or in front of the same audience.