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MA Matt Abrams Works on rebuilding trust in information systems and public institutions, treating AI as a force that could either accelerate the erosion of institutional trust...

“…we have a lot of Steve Wozniaks running around, but not many Steve Jobs. And without Steve Jobs, there would be no Apple.”

Scaling Laws · August 2026

“…we have a lot of Steve Wozniaks running around, but not many Steve Jobs. And without Steve Jobs, there would be no Apple.” — Matt Abrams, Scaling Laws

Abrams's diagnosis of the AI moment: engineering brilliance is abundant and cheap, while the judgment about what deserves to be built — and for whom — is the scarce input nobody is scaling.

Transcript

Scaling Laws Around 31:20 into the episode
Matt Abrams

I'll push back. It used to be a requirement for to be a corporation. You had to show what you were doing for the public good.

Kevin Frazier

…a much more compelling story about what it is you're actually doing to advance the well-being of the general welfare than just Will Cure. Cancer at some point. Do you agree with me? Where am I going wrong? And then we'll get to the positive stuff because I know you have some good examples there.

Matt Abrams

…AI is, to your point, it's been horribly put out there. I think a lot of it was, I am an optimist where I think that there will be a tremendous amount of jobs that are created and we're not focusing on what those jobs can and should be. And I'll fire for effect here, perhaps in this respect. Engineers do a really shitty job of telling stories. Engineers do a really shitty job. Like, you know, we have a lot of Steve Wozniaks running around, but not many Steve Jobs. And without Steve Jobs, there would be no Apple. Woz would have built the best homebrew club kit computer, and no one would have heard of Apple. And we have in the Zuckerbergs of the world or in the Muss of the world, it is this perspective of telling these narratives and stories that do not resonate or not clear with the everyday person because they don't understand how does the lumber worker, how does the coal miner, how does the farmer, how…

Kevin Frazier

Rambles are always appreciated on scaling laws. So don't worry there. I think that this also begs a bigger question, which is I was nerding out recently on the difference between a trust. Trustee model of elected representatives versus a delegate model of representation. And the understanding was…

Speaker 4

Yeah, I mean, look, I'll go right to the, and it's the

Matt Abrams

next part of how to get out of this. And that, as you know, I'm deeply involved in citizen or civic assemblies and delib tech, deliberation technology. And that includes where AI fits in as part of that. And for those who are not familiar with citizens or civic assemblies, it's a very old idea, you…

Speaker names from our own diarization · position estimated from where the line sits in the episode

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