“Everyone's like, 'oh yeah, I could vibe code that in an afternoon.' And the answer is, if you vibe code that in an afternoon, software, just like everything else, it deteriorates over time. It's not like you build something and it's great and it keeps working. There's bugs, there's issues, more people come on it… We have a group internally. We call them our boomerangs… I've had a couple of CMOs call me with very colorful language, telling me, we went down this path and it's totally effed. I need to come back to Webflow.”

…I have to put into maintaining the software versus buying the software? And if the total cost of ownership doesn't add up, then like no one's going to vibe code it because it is so much more expensive to hire great talent and have that talent building something that's not critical to your business.

Right.

Okay. So let's talk a little bit about whether this compression is justified. If we look at even those categories you just talked about, like payments, for instance, PayPal's multiple has collapsed. And that's one of the categories we're talking about. Well, that might actually make sense not to…

I think it's partially justified. I mean, the way that people do the math, right, is if your growth is starting to slow, and let's say before you're growing like 50%, like you could get a 10x multiple because they're like, oh, to actually get that valuation, you only need like, you know, four or…

So let's take those two examples a little deeper, Salesforce and Adobe. What are they doing right that's starting to allow them to recover? For example, Salesforce kind of went for this like headless model on top of their system of record. Is that a good move for companies to take?