“There's also one song that was written originally for the film, probably everyone's least favorite song in the film, which is a very jaunty number called Knock on Wood. … The people in Rick's Cafe are singing along to this song that says, If you've got trouble, just knock on wood. And I think we're meant to discount this song … because the moral of the film is going to be that when you are in a time of trouble, you don't just sit tight and hope for the best, that you have to act.”

her husband, who played

the Marseillais. Yes, Marcel Dalio, who plays the Croupier in the film, was her real-life husband. Pamela Hutchinson you tell us,

I mean, it's kind of a conversion film, if I can come in, because I think that's a really interesting point you make about the difference between those two numbers. Because really, if you think about what's the underlying kind of plot of the film, it's about how Rick, who is shown as a cynic, but…

We'll come to this point about the politics in a minute. But before we do, what about the business aspect of the studio? So Warner's in the business of making money. Is wartime an opportunity or is it a problem because they have to adapt to what perhaps the government, perhaps society is expecting?

It's an opportunity. If you look at the pattern of film attendance, it basically rises through the 40s. The 40s is the peak of film attendance all over the world, really. Of course, people are watching different films. So in the Allied world, they're watching Hollywood predominantly, but…