“I have a feeling that cyber spend, security spend, should actually vastly outstrip software spend. I really think that. ... When I look at the world we're going to be in, where software in some ways is becoming ... so cheap ... you don't just want software, right? You want software that is reliable, that is secure, that you can believe in.”

…to outstrip attackers, but it is going to take a lot of change, right? It's going to take a sort of change in terms of how we think about every organization operating and how we collectively think about critical infrastructure and resourcing those that have sort of not had those resources to date.

…percent of the IT budget. Like, what do you think it should be at this moment of time? And like, is it all of this other stuff that you were investing in from a cyber tooling perspective, network endpoint, traditional corporate security is less relevant, or we just need to go spend twice as much?

Third-party software now like Socket and others will do this as an example where they'll scan through your open source supply chain and try and find vulnerabilities and identify them for you. Or there's the human element of it where maintainers would suddenly take over a project and then install…

Exactly. I think it's so important. So we're doing this with the community. We're partnering with companies like CrowdStrike. And I think that it is, again, a coordinated response. But we really view it as a core priority for OpenAI to lead, right? For us to really, because we have the frontier…

of the things about OpenAI is that it's always been very pro-human and very pro-human agency, human progress. Let's use AI to better everyone. I think the original premise of OpenAI was let's have something that can counterbalance other companies in terms of creating AI that can be used very…