Connect your Claude, Codex or OpenClaw for full transcripts on millions of podcasts. Two week free trial, cancel anytime.

Start free trial →
KY Kenji Yoshino On Hidden Brain

“You'll have a lot smoother ride to getting tenure if you are a homosexual professional rather than a professional homosexual. … What he meant was, you'll do much better if you are the mainstream constitutional law professor who just happens to be gay on the side as an extracurricular activity than if you are the gay rights professor who teaches gay rights subjects and writes on gay rights cases.”

Hidden Brain · Ideas & Essays · November 2026

“You'll have a lot smoother ride to getting tenure if you are a homosexual professional rather than a professional homosexual. … What he meant was, you'll do much better if you are the mainstream constitutional law professor who just happens to be gay on the side as an extracurricular activity than if you are the gay rights professor who teaches gay rights subjects and writes on gay rights cases.” — Kenji Yoshino, Hidden Brain

Context

Yoshino recalls advice from a well-meaning senior colleague when he was a junior law professor. It made him realize that even after coming out he was being asked to tone himself down, which led to his idea of "covering".

Transcript

Hidden Brain Around 33:20 into the episode
Kenji Yoshino

…you know, felt that I was downplaying him or hiding him in ways that suggested I was ashamed of the relationship and that he really deserved better. And the idea of holding somebody's hand in public or showing public displays of same-sex affection were all sort of verboten at this time for me.

Shankar Vedantam

So eventually, Kenji Yoshino became a law professor. And at one point, you received a piece of advice from a colleague that backed up your decision to disguise yourself in the way that you were disguising yourself. What was this advice?

Kenji Yoshino

So the advice that I got when I started teaching as a junior professor was by a very well-meaning, very kind colleague who wanted only good things for me. And he put his arm around me as we were walking down the hall. And he said, you know, Kenji Yoshino have a lot smoother ride to getting tenure if you are a homosexual professional rather than a professional homosexual. And I knew exactly what he meant. What he meant was, you'll do much better if you are the mainstream constitutional law professor who teaches separation of powers and federalism and judicial review and just happens to be gay on the side as an extracurricular activity than you will. if you are the gay rights professor who teaches gay rights subjects and writes on gay rights issues and works on gay rights cases. Unfortunately, of course, it was the latter that I wanted to do. This was now 1996, a time when the ice was finally breaking up on the LGBTQI plus landscape. The Romer versus Evans case had just been decided. It was really clear that we were barreling our way towards Lawrence versus Texas in 2003, which was the Brown v. Board of the gay rights movement. And I did not want to be on the sidelines for that.…

Shankar Vedantam

So in other words, be gay, but don't flaunt it.

Kenji Yoshino

Exactly. And the reason that that was so utterly painful for me was it was someone I really admired and trusted. And he was saying, actually, there's another hurdle that you need to wrestle with, right? Which is you don't need to be straight, right? So you don't need to convert. You don't need to…

Shankar Vedantam

So one day you came by a book that transformed your understanding of what was happening to you and what was happening around you. Can you paint me a picture of this epiphany, Kenji?

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

More from Hidden Brain