“Now with AI, what's happening is this kill chain has inverted, where you can run an AI system that just goes hogwild and it looks at the targets and it finds the bugs in real time and it writes the exploits in real time and it breaks into these companies. … It has been a long time since you've been able to go and just download an open source tool and break into multi-billion dollar companies. It's like the 90s, right?”

…stole from the military, right? In the military, they mean to actually kill something. They're the steps you do to blow something up. In cyber, the kill chain is the things you do to have an effect on a target. So to steal information, to turn something off, right? To steal money, to steal Bitcoin.

Yeah.

like Windows in the late 90s, early 2000s when it was a security disaster.

I started saying this actually in the beginning of this year, which is like, it's an incredibly exciting and terrifying time because the last time it felt like this was when I was a much younger man and I would go to the very early DEF CON's. DEF CON these days is like 40, 50, 60,000 people. Back…

You mentioned the economics of frontier models, just the economy of cyber is one of those things that has gotten sophisticated over the years. Right. So you're in these early days, a bunch of people in a room. One of the things that our systems got safer is you could pay the number of people at DEF…