“Heresy is actually rewarded in academia as long as it's not completely outrageous. So you get a lot more points for saying something that goes against the consensus. … Go to Google or Microsoft, arguably very open-minded organizations, and try to be heretical there. I think it's much, much, much harder.”

I don't know. I think that's why there are, I say, there are many gray areas that liberal ideas, and even at its best,

liberal philosophy will not have an answer, but we have to navigate them, trying to reach compromise.

Yeah, it used to be their call sign, you know, move fast and break things. And now it's, you know, be careful, shareholder value. We have an IPO coming up, and we'll talk about open AI and Hugging Face and the Navier-Stokes controversy in just a minute. But you talk about paradigms, you mentioned Thomas Kuhn, and I'm recalling your fellow Nobel laureate Max Planck, who said that science advances one funeral at a time. My question is: how much self-correction, how much introspection is good for institutions? I mean, you and I, as I said in my invitation letter to you, I mean, we are the, you know, we're basically scratching on a rock, you know, a blackboard with another piece of rock like Gal like people did in the University of Bologna in the year 1000. Very little has changed, despite, you know, it seems like academia is very resilient. What will it take for academia to fully change? So it would be unrecognizable to Galileo should he come back, you know, from the dead.

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Well, look, conditions are different. So I don't know to what extent some of these adaptations we've made have been good adaptations for our times versus distortions. But I wouldn't say our real problem right now is that science has slowed down. It's more like we are not getting the fruits of science in productivity. And we have also sacrificed freedom of speech and diversity of opinion in many areas outside of science, sometimes even touching on science, but outside of universities, in schools, in organizations, sometimes we don't discuss and compromise as we need to in a pluralistic society based on liberal ideas.