JK

Jason Koebler

Things Jason Says on Podcasts

Journalist and co-founder of 404 Media, covering technology, surveillance and the internet. Previously editor-in-chief of Motherboard for six years after four years as a staff writer there. Writes for 404 Media and appears on The 404 Media Podcast. Has been a guest on On the Media, What Next: TBD, Tech Won't Save Us and Better Offline.

Where to Find Them

Jason Koebler hosts The 404 Media Podcast , hosts and writes 404 Media and writes DeLong's Grasping Reality Weblog . They have also been a guest on TechStuff (5 times) , On the Media (4 times) , Tech Won't Save Us (4 times) , What Next: TBD | Tech, power, and the future (4 times) , Taylor Lorenz’s Power User (3 times) , The Engadget Podcast (2 times) , All TWiT.tv Shows (Audio) , Better Offline , Tech News Weekly (Audio) , The Intercept Briefing , Tech News Weekly (Video) , On with Kara Swisher , Close All Tabs , All TWiT.tv Shows (Video) , Decoding Tech , Recode Media , The Nation Podcasts and Daily Tech News Show .

Recently: “Republicans Learn X Is the Echo Chamber” on The 404 Media Podcast (November 2026); “Inside Proton’s AI Reckoning” on The 404 Media Podcast (November 2026); “Why Communities Want to Stop Flock Cameras w/ Jason Koebler / Tech Won't Save Us” on The Nation Podcasts (October 2026); “Why Communities Want to Stop Flock Cameras w/ Jason Koebler” on Tech Won't Save Us (October 2026); “Leaked Audio: Flock CEO Says the Backlash Isn’t Real” on The 404 Media Podcast (October 2026); “ChatGPT Keeps Telling People 404 Media Can Solve Their Tech Support Problems” on 404 Media (October 2026).

What They Said

“With Flock Cameras it is so local, it's like a small town has entered into a contract with this company and you can go to a city council meeting and yell at the mayor or you can yell at the city council member that lives three blocks away from you and say, why is this here? I think it's become this thing that people feel like they can make a difference on.” — Jason Koebler, Tech Won't Save Us

Paris Marx asked why license-plate cameras, rather than Ring doorbells or phone tracking, became the focus of public anger. Koebler says the cameras are conspicuous and the contracts are signed by local governments that people can actually confront.

Tech Won't Save Us · 2026-10-29 Permalink → Listen →
Tech Won't Save Us Around 40:01 into the episode
Jason Koebler

…packages aren't going to be stolen. They feel like they can know when their pizza is here, things like this. Like people are, people who have ring cameras, I know some people, they're obsessed with them. They're using them all the time. They feel like they are deriving some sort of benefit from it.

Paris Marx

I know people who are like on the left who still have their ring camera, you know, even though they would generally be critical of it, right?

Jason Koebler

Exactly. And it's like, you know, we're surveilled on social media and our phones like all the time, but people feel like they're getting some sort of benefit from, you know, being on Instagram or whatever, or having location services on for different apps and things like that. And I think also it's like you can go tweet at Mark Zuckerberg or complain to Facebook tech support that doesn't exist or whatever. Or you can like say you don't like the NSA spying on you, but there's no like place to really vent that frustration in any way that will have a big difference, or at least where it feels like the average person can do something about it. But with Flock Cameras it is so local, it's like a small town has entered into a contract with this company and you can go to a city council meeting and yell at the mayor or you can yell at the city council member that lives three blocks away from you and say, why is this here? I think it's become like this thing that people feel like they can make a difference on. And so that's happening. I think people don't understand the benefit to them of having this surveillance. I don't think there is one…

Paris Marx

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I feel like in some small towns, there can also be a bit more of like the kind of you know, libertarian kind of, you know, I'm taking care of myself, you know, we're looking after one another. You know, why do I then need this, you know, this foreign…

Jason Koebler

Yeah, I mean, it really is a range. And I mean, I more than 100 towns have canceled their flock contracts. Like, this is a real backlash that has had a real effect. Like, that is, I mean, and some of the towns that have cut their contracts are really big. They're not towns, they're huge cities.…

Paris Marx

when you said using a shotgun to shoot a flock camera, I said, okay, that sounds very American. And then when you said taking one and like throwing it into feeding it to a gator. Exactly. I was like, okay, yeah, that's Florida. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“Our AI content strategy has started a doom loop that will hurt the performance of our models and the entire web at the same time. It is highly unusual that an end product threatens the economic foundations of its essential suppliers, but that is the situation we have created for our LLM business with respect to its content supply chain.” — Jason Koebler, The 404 Media Podcast

Koebler reading aloud from an internal Microsoft document unsealed in the New York Times' copyright suit against OpenAI and Microsoft, as the 404 Media hosts go through the summary-judgment filings. The same batch of documents has an OpenAI policy director describing the company as creating systems that substitute for the labor of the people who define the culture of society. The point Koebler draws out: the companies are describing model collapse in their own words.

The 404 Media Podcast · 2026-09-23 Permalink → Listen →
The 404 Media Podcast Around 10:36 into the episode
Jason Koebler

…clicks to news sites and the New York Times fell by more than 90%. So, I mean, just like a huge, huge decrease. And all this aligns with what we've seen in real life. News sites are not getting clicks from Google anymore because of AI overviews, like that traffic has created, so on and so forth.

Joseph Cox

…New York Times paywall. Now, I don't think this is probably going to be the most sophisticated thing in the world. I think anybody on the internet probably knows how to get around, you know, certain paywalls and that sort of thing. But what did they say and sort of what is the significance of that?

Jason Koebler

…shouldn't have taken that paywalled content. I mean, the document that I thought was most interesting and which we've kind of mentioned, but haven't gotten into what it is, is this one that's in the headline about Doom Loop. It is an internal Microsoft document that basically assesses what LLMs are doing to the industry and specifically what their strategy is doing. And so the quote is: quote, our AI content strategy has started a doom loop that will hurt the performance of our models and the entire web at the same time. It is highly unusual that an end product threatens the economic foundations of its essential suppliers, but that is the situation we have created for our LLM business with respect to its content supply chain. It's basically like they're saying we are making something that is siphoning from another thing, these suppliers, these people who write articles and publish articles and books and art and all that. And what we're doing is destroying that. And there's an open AI document that also kind of touches on this from their policy director, Jack Clark, where he said that the company was, quote, creating…

Emanuel Maiberg

Is there a date for those?

Jason Koebler

There's not a date. I mean, a lot of this stuff was happening around like GPT-3. GPT-3 was like many at this point, generations ago, but that's kind of the moment that ChatGPT was like became a thing and where it had this amazing growth and people started using it. And then the depositions have…

Joseph Cox

Yeah. So, I mean, listeners and viewers of this podcast probably kind of already know of this, right? And we obviously know it and other people in the media industry do, other people who just follow AI are like none of these are new ideas to them. But it is obviously significant that we're hearing…

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

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