“You have $30,000 of people in this meeting, right? To replace any product you're currently paying for as a SaaS, you're going to have many meetings. Even if every meeting costs you $2,000 or $3,000, you're at $10,000 of time before you've built anything, before you've decided who's responsible, who's going to build it, who's going to maintain it. You're at tens of thousands of dollars very quickly in any type of bigger-than-founder-led organization.”

So, you have $30,000 of people in this meeting, right? So, my premise is that to replace any product that's currently you're paying for a SaaS, you're going to have many meetings. But even if it's not, let's say it's five meetings, you're going to have five meetings because you're a bigger business. And let's go not that extreme example. Let's go with a smaller example where every meeting costs you $2,000 or $3,000. Like, right there, you're at $10,000 of time. That's before you built anything, before you do anything, before you've decided the procedures, before you've decided who's responsible, who's going to build it, who's going to maintain it, all the stuff. Like, you're at tens of thousands of dollars very quickly in any type of bigger than founder-led organization. And so, I don't know. Like, I just think that those people are looking at the trade-offs very differently. And so, to me, that the main trade-off there is like, can I replace this CRM and get go from something that's somewhat generic, right? Just by its nature to like my own custom one. And the difference there is so valuable that it more has to more than make up for the time and cost and effort. So, like, if I just, if it costs me $20,000, $30,000 a year to replace…