Connect your Claude, Codex or OpenClaw for full transcripts on millions of podcasts. Two week free trial, cancel anytime.

Start free trial →
JG Jayesh Govindarajan On Product Growth

“AI slop comes in many different forms. You know, a prototype that looks like any other prototype, AI slop. People just checking the box by sending you a really long document, AI slop. … I think there's no substitute for craftsmanship. There's no substitute for agency.”

Product Growth · Product & Design · November 2026

“AI slop comes in many different forms. You know, a prototype that looks like any other prototype, AI slop. People just checking the box by sending you a really long document, AI slop. … I think there's no substitute for craftsmanship. There's no substitute for agency.” — Jayesh Govindarajan, Product Growth

Context

Aakash Gupta asked how Salesforce hires the new AI product manager. Govindarajan said he looks first for agency, then an agent-native mindset, skepticism and craftsmanship, and this is how he defines what a candidate must avoid sending.

Transcript

Product Growth
Jayesh Govindarajan

more of that. So

Aakash Gupta

we've built the tool layer. People now understand the roles. To close off the role layer, how do you hire this new AI PM? What are you looking for?

Jayesh Govindarajan

…have that craftsmanship mindset. They're not producing AI slop. They're putting their name to it and they do not like to put a name to something that has AI slop. AI slop comes in many different forms. You know, prototype that looks like any other prototype, AI slop. People just checking the box by sending you a really long document, AI slop. So these are sort of, there are clear do's and don't. I think there's no substitute for craftsmanship. There's no substitute for agency. I think those are two really important things to look for. Like, do they have attention to detail is a good example of craftsmanship. And then it's tooling. It is how do you translate that skepticism into test cases and evals that are failing when you build the system that you're building or testing the system that you're testing? Can you set a bar on what good looks like? Because that's what…

Aakash Gupta

Yeah, I think the tools are pretty easy. The roles, we've given you some more clarity on. I think that third layer now is the life cycle that all of this is under. And you created this new term, ADLC. Yeah. Not the SDLC that we all know. So can you define those two terms for us and explain to us…

Jayesh Govindarajan

Sure. So SDLC is the software development lifecycle, which we all know and love that have been building software for years. ADLC is an equivalent for the agentic world, the agent development lifecycle, if you will. What is the life? If the software you're producing is not just a deterministic piece…

Aakash Gupta

Does the ADLC only apply then if you're building agents?

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

More from Product Growth