“Toward the end, there were a lot of spectators showing up, including people who were in a book club who read John's book and who came together as a little book club outing. And I'm asking them, what are you guys doing here? And one of them told me, which I'll never forget, oh, we're just fans of white collar crime… In the same way that there are people who are fans of murder stories or murder podcasts, there's also a fraud contingent as well.”

to your question of the enduring interest, that one. Is a little bit different because there are just so many elements of her story that are a little bit like odd or attention grabbing. I mean, from the outfits to the voice to like all of the kind of like the secrecy and obsession. Yes, yeah. There are just enough pieces of it that I feel like it touches every possible demographic. Like one thing from the trial, I remember, you know, talking to a lot of the toward the end, there were a lot of spectators showing up and including people who were in a book club who read John's book and who came together as like a little book club outing. And, you know, I'm asking them, like, what are you guys doing here? And one of them told me, which I'll never forget, like, oh, we're just fans of white collar crime. And I was like, are you, you're, you mean, as a book genre or as a genre of story? Okay, sure. And in the same way that there are people who are fans of like, you know, murder stories or murder podcasts, like there's also a fraud contingent as well. John must be