Things Andy Yen Has Said on Podcasts

“I think the users were allergic to big tech and not actually to AI. They just associated AI with big tech, which is actually kind of a fair and reasonable thing to do.” — Andy Yen, Uncanny Valley | WIRED

Andy Yen describes the backlash Proton got when it first shipped AI features, and how the same users who complained later complained that the AI wasn't good enough. His read: privacy-minded users don't actually object to AI itself, just to the companies that have historically abused their data.

Uncanny Valley | WIRED · 2026-08-18 Permalink → Listen →

Uncanny Valley | WIRED Around 11:27 into the episode

Andy Yen

…reluctantly pulled in, but we saw the writing on the wall. And once we came to the conclusion that AI was here to stay, it was unavoidable if we are to fulfill our mission that we also enter the space to provide an alternative. I would probably prefer a world where AI didn't exist, but it's here.

Andy Greenberg

Interesting. Well, do your users agree?

Andy Yen

It's really interesting because this has shifted quite a bit in just the last two, three years. I think the users were allergic to big tech and not actually to AI. They just associated AI with big tech, which is actually kind of a fair and reasonable thing to do. When we first came out with AI features in Proton, there was quite a bit of backlash. People were sort of like, why are you doing this? It's a waste of resources. It's not what person stands for. You've just become like another tech company, you know. But then, after we put out, especially after we put out Lumo last year, what we really kind of saw in the weeks and months after was the exact…

Andy Greenberg

Well, it's an interesting framing that, like, would you rather have Google have access to your chats with an AI, or would you rather have a company like Proton? Would you rather trust Proton? But I was kind of surprised when I dug into how Lumo works that it is not end-to-end encrypted chatting…

Andy Yen

Yeah, yeah, and this is different from ProtonMail because ProtonMail the guarantee is actually mathematical. As a physicist, I like mathematical guarantees, right? The issue with LLMs is today the technology for doing that in a fully end-to-end encrypted way, it's not there yet. I think it will get…

Andy Greenberg

Well, that's a really interesting idea that in a couple of years, there will be technical capacity to do end-to-end encrypted AI chatting. I think, are you talking about? I mean, I'm not trying not to get too nerdy here, but like homomorphic encryption where you can really,

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

“AI is surveillance, the internet is surveillance, and the internet as an invention was great for many things, but it was one of the worst inventions that could have been made from a privacy standpoint.” — Andy Yen, Uncanny Valley | WIRED

Andy Yen runs Proton, an encrypted-email and privacy company that has also started shipping its own AI features. Explaining why he thinks privacy companies can't just sit AI out, he puts AI in the same bucket as the internet itself: transformative, and terrible for privacy.

Uncanny Valley | WIRED · 2026-08-18 Permalink → Listen →

Uncanny Valley | WIRED Around 09:09 into the episode

Andy Yen

Well, it's a Freeman business model. So, actually, most of them use it for free, but the typical conversion rates that you see for Freeman business models are usually between 1% and 3%. And Proton sits in that bucket as well.

Andy Greenberg

…asking me, my own family, among my friends, if they should switch to Proton, and they're asking because they're sick of having AI pushed on them in Gmail in particular. Are you capitalizing on this kind of perhaps AI backlash, this resistance to AI that is making people think about their privacy?

Andy Yen

We are capitalizing on it, and we're making it easier than ever now to switch. So, for example, now there's an easy switch tool on Proton where you can basically bring all your emails from Google automatically and get everything put into Proton in just a couple of clicks. But my take on this trend is actually a little bit more nuanced. AI is surveillance, the internet is surveillance, and the internet as an invention was great for many things, but it was one of the worst inventions that could have been made from a privacy standpoint. We have lost our privacy to a large extent because of the creation of the internet and all that enables. And that's something that we have to come to terms with. And if I look at AI, I think it's kind of the same thing. The genie is out of the bottle. We're not going to put it back in. And we are not going to be returning to a pre-AI world. If we accept that as a fact, the key question becomes…

Andy Greenberg

Well, it's a yeah, I guess the question is: well, are you in fact excited about AI?

Andy Yen

Yeah, if I were to describe Proton's stance, I would say we were reluctantly pulled in, but we saw the writing on the wall. And once we came to the conclusion that AI was here to stay, it was unavoidable if we are to fulfill our mission that we also enter the space to provide an alternative. I…

Andy Greenberg

Interesting. Well, do your users agree?

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

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