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AL Anna Lembke Anna Lembke Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Stanford University School of Medicine, chief of the Stanford Addiction Medicine Dual Diagnosis Clinic and pr...

“What has happened in the modern world is that we have developed so many levers to control our experience that we have become addicted to control itself. So we are constantly optimizing, right? We're relationship maxing, we're career maxing, we're looks maxing, we're counting our steps, our sleep, our accomplishments, our calories, other people.”

Huberman Lab · Health & Longevity · November 2026

“What has happened in the modern world is that we have developed so many levers to control our experience that we have become addicted to control itself. So we are constantly optimizing, right? We're relationship maxing, we're career maxing, we're looks maxing, we're counting our steps, our sleep, our accomplishments, our calories, other people.” — Anna Lembke, Huberman Lab

Context

Huberman asked how a friend's recovery could have come through a faith-based program. Lembke said that in severe cases people are addicted less to a substance than to control, then widened the claim to everyone. It is the central argument of her new book.

Transcript

Huberman Lab Around 23:56 into the episode
Andrew Huberman

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Speaker 4

…short time that I'd known him. And now it's been a long time. So I'm like, man, that is awesome. When I ever see him like so great. And he's just like, he will tell you. Like, I mean, this isn't propaganda for me. He'll tell you, God, Jesus got him sober. And I'm like, so what the heck's going on?

Anna Lembke

…the world. Now, updating the world takes an interesting form. It's a way of further foraging and saying if maybe I need to collect more data. It's a way of redirecting our attention so that now we're attending to things that match with our mental model. But the bottom line is that we're constantly seeking to assert control and reduce uncertainty. And it's adaptive and it's what's kept us alive. What has happened in the modern world is that we have developed so many levers to control our experience that we have become addicted to control itself. So we are constantly optimizing, right? We're relationship maxing, we're career maxing, we're looks maxing, we're counting our steps, our sleep, our accomplishments, our calories, other people. We're trying to engineer perfection and get the perfect mental model of the world to the point where our efforts to exert control are now quite divorced from what is actually happening in the world. And addiction is the quintessential example of that. Through my addictive behaviors, I can create this world within a world where my focus narrows, everything else falls away. I've simplified things.…

Speaker 4

Incredible. I've never thought about this addiction to control. Some years ago, you told me something that really stuck in my mind and made me kind of take a look at myself for a moment, where you said that addicts like to like line up their pills or kind of count their bags. I've never been a…

Anna Lembke

do fine without it until they actually had to go without

Speaker 4

exactly. Exactly. So they're, you know, and they were pretty irritable if they hadn't had it or if they weren't certain when they could.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

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