Nathan Labenz

Things Nathan Says on Podcasts

Founder and former CEO of Waymark, an AI-powered video creation platform, who now focuses full time on tracking and explaining frontier AI development. Trained in philosophy, he studies AI safety, interpretability and alignment questions and interviews researchers building the models he covers. Hosts The Cognitive Revolution podcast and newsletter, interviewing AI builders and researchers on model welfare, reward hacking and bio-risk assessment, and has appeared as a guest on the Future of Life Institute Podcast, 80,000 Hours Podcast and ChinaTalk.

Where to Find Them

Nathan Labenz hosts and writes The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis , hosts and writes The Cognitive Revolution , hosts Future of Life Institute Podcast , hosts Turpentine VC" | Venture Capital and Investing , hosts and writes Latent Space , hosts The AI Daily Brief: Artificial Intelligence News and Analysis , writes a16z Podcast , hosts NonZero Newsletter and hosts Scaling Laws . They have also been a guest on 80,000 Hours Podcast (4 times) , ChinaTalk (2 times) , Doom Debates! (2 times) , The Inside View , Marketing Against The Grain and AI & I . They also write for Nathan Labenz on Substack.

Recently: “AI:AM: Carbon in the Arena, Mistral's Le Chonk, the Agent-Run Economy, Ferroelectric RAM + New Hacks” on The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis (October 2026); “Freedom of Action: America's ASI Strategy, w/ RAND's Joel Predd, Ben Boudreaux & Matt Chessen” on The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis (October 2026); “AI:AM Highlights: Clean Neurons, Black October, the GPU Credit Crunch, and Buying the Supply Chain” on The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis (October 2026); “A World Model of Life: Biohub's Alex Rives on Virtual Cells, Measurement, & the $1.8B Data Push” on The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis (October 2026); “AI:AM: Where's the Steering Wheel? My Agent Set the Password, Hidden Valence, Proofs Find Linux Bugs” on The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis (October 2026); “Governing AI Agents: Alan Chan of GovAI on Monitoring, Agent IDs, Rogue Agents & Preparing for RSI” on The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis (October 2026).

What They Said

His co-host had argued that cheap robot kitchens would make marginal restaurants viable, creating more restaurants and more jobs. This is his pushback on the idea that new demand will absorb displaced workers.

The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis · 2026-10-31 Permalink → Listen →
The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis Around 46:45 into the episode
Nathan Labenz

Prakash's counter was restaurants. Family restaurants died on thin margins. Robot kitchens would make them profitable. And so you would get more of them.

Speaker 3

But

Speaker 4

we can only eat so much food, right? This is the thing where it's like, at the end of the day, I'm only going to eat so many calories. You know, you're describing a world where all the restaurants, this is the classic, like we lose money on everyone and make it up on volume, but like brought to employment. Like all the restaurants will massively cut their staff and replace their kitchen workers with robots, but we'll have a lot more restaurants. Like, I just don't see the math working out on that, given the fact that there may be a lump of labor fallacy, but I'm pretty sure the lump of food principle is like roughly right. You know, I'm only going to eat so many calories. And like at some point, that is just plain saturated, right? I don't see the like we have, we have to posit a world where I'm somehow like eating from like five different restaurants for every meal or something to get to the point where, I don't know, maybe my vision is too limited. That could be kind of cool, I suppose.

Speaker 3

But you are right. You know, I don't think the human consumption is really where the growth is. The growth is always going to be in the AI consumption going forward, as you can see. So you have these concentric circles of the economy, and the AI economy is always the one going to be expanding…

Speaker 4

It sounds more dystopian than utopian to think that the bulk of human activity will go into status games, I have to say. I'm like a bear on employment, bullish on people's ability to find meaning in absence of employment, I think, certainly relative to most. I really think way too many people in…

Nathan Labenz

Part five, five to ten cents. Michael Freeman is Senior Director of Threat Research at ServiceNow. His team watches AI agents attack companies, and he has spent his career finding and exploiting vulnerabilities. I asked what he makes of the current moment.

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

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