Kevin Xu

Things Kevin Says on Podcasts

Founder of Interconnected Capital, Writer of Interconnected newsletter, ex GitHub, Obama White House

Where to Find Them

Kevin Xu writes Interconnected , hosts ChinaTalk , writes Interconnects , writes Interconnects (Nathan Lambert) , writes GitHub Blog , writes ChinaTalk and writes Here It Comes . They have also been a guest on The Lawfare Podcast (2 times) , The Lawfare Podcast: Patreon Edition (2 times) , Prof G Media (2 times) and Odd Lots .

Recently: “Are We Cooking!? What Should Dems Do Next + Jensen's Affair” on ChinaTalk (November 2026); “($) Q3 2026 Performance Update: Suitably Paranoid” on Interconnected (October 2026); “From Trees to Granite” on Interconnected (September 2026); “There and Back Again: Tracking Global AI Talent Flow” on Interconnected (September 2026); “The current balance of power in open models” on Interconnects (September 2026); “Don’t Sleep on the BRICS AI Open Source Community” on Interconnected (September 2026).

What They Said

“Their mode of operation prior to AI was that for them to get an industrial project of any kind, they had to offer incentives to attract the companies to come. … Why are we paying them to come when they're so desperate to build in places that are five times bigger than us? So they're literally making that switch in their brain right now. … We have all the leverage. We're not giving you a dime. You got to pay us to do this and do that.” — Kevin Xu, ChinaTalk

Xu, who tracks local data center moratoriums, describes what small-town officials tell him. The leverage has flipped from towns courting industry to companies needing towns, and big tech has been slow to adapt.

ChinaTalk · 2026-11-07 Permalink → Listen →
ChinaTalk Around 20:38 into the episode
Matt Klein

…then. I mean, those are sort of data centers that have been built in the past already, but I think it's still sort of instructive of, you know, there is a positive sum outcome here of sharing kind of the surplus gains from building these things. You know, need to make a deal. I mean, I think you,

Jordan Schneider

…it's like going above and beyond just the tax revenue that may not sort of flow in a, in a, um, in a way which is like immediately legible as, oh, AI is doing this to make my life better. You know, the data center is the thing which is driving this improvement in my kids' school or what have you.

Kevin Xu

Yeah, I think there are actually two interesting mismatches in that dynamic. One is, of course, the big tech just needs to fork up, right? These numbers are literally the rounding error of the rounding error of the entire size of the project they're trying to build here. When it's sweet, how little, yeah, it's like having like two racks of GPU worth of money that could be improving local communities in a very tangible way. Now, I would also say a lot of the local communities, a lot of the cities that are city councils who hold the power, they've been blindsided by this dynamic too. So I got the chance to actually interact with a lot of local city council people because of my dashboard. People like start emailing me, be like, hey, did you get this moratorium? Make sure you include this one in your next dashboard. And I get to like talk to them a little and activists too, which is that, you know, their mode of operation prior to AI was that for them to get an industrial project of any kind, they had to offer incentives to attract the companies to come, right? That is their mode of operation for eternity. So their first reaction is always, okay, please come to us. We're this little town, Wisconsin. We'll give you tax…

Peter Harrell

So shifting topics a bit, staying on AI and New Democratic Congress, one area where I am quite optimistic on the new Democratic Congress next year is tougher export controls on China. I think we have seen because of the Trump administration's ambivalence around export controls on China and the…

Matt Klein

I know that's a favorite

Peter Harrell

topic of yours, George. So we

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.
“If you build a data center that hypothetically costs $100, only one to two of those dollars go to securing power. Only about 20 bucks out of the 100 bucks goes to building the concrete building, hiring the electricians and the laborers and all that. 70 to 80 bucks out of the 100 bucks is going towards buying the GPUs.” — Kevin Xu, ChinaTalk

Xu proposes a data-center deal that makes tech companies pay for grid upgrades and union labor. His argument is that construction and power are a small share of total cost, so companies can easily afford to pay more for them.

ChinaTalk · 2026-11-07 Permalink → Listen →
ChinaTalk Around 12:15 into the episode
Peter Harrell

…around it so i'm going to be optimistic that we will get there i am also realistic um that you know it's there are going to be temptations to only focus on the kind of corrupt the headline grabbing parts of this and not on actually getting the policy right uh over the the the mid to longer term

Jordan Schneider

kevin you want to talk about the ai of it all we've had um uh i've been enjoying watching your your data data center pause tracker um perhaps one of the earliest to this trend on the internet maybe the

Kevin Xu

maybe the earliest maybe the earliest yeah you know uh started tracking data center moratorium what back in january claude vibe coded a dashboard in march thinking this could be a thing and i would venture to say this issue is at least nationally the top three issue for all voters and in some states probably the number one issue that might have swung a governor race to one direction or the other right i think the texas governor race is exhibit a where very few on wall street thought this was going to be big enough issue that could help catapult you know kinojosa to the governor seat and the fact that she did They pulled that off, torched like a trillion dollar worth of market cap yesterday from Wall Street. You know, no big deal. But I think coming back to since we're doing prescriptive stuff, I actually think this is a winning issue for the Democrats if they know how to legislate this and this will actually get passed. I think one of the biggest misconceptions about this AI data center moratorium issue that I absolutely hated was that this is somehow a liberals hate big tech story. And that's it.…

Jordan Schneider

Yeah, I mean, it's an open question, like if this is even turnaround a bull, but I guess on the other plus side, right? Like these aren't factories that are poisoning the water and like giving your kids cancer. They're just big places that may like have some sound issues and, you know, at one point

Peter Harrell

raised raised your power prices. But once you deal with that, but they could be,

Kevin Xu

right? They could be misperceived as such. That's the thing. It's like older generation of data centers, not the new ones, the older ones, they're all placed next to really big rivers for a reason, for cooling reasons, right? So if you're not in the weeds of how a data center works, you could very…

Speaker names come from our own diarization. The position is estimated from where the line sits in the episode.

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